SPEAKER_00 0:01

We knew we needed to cover three major things, which was housing, food, and clothing. So we needed to make sure that they had those three things set. We made sure we got teams together instantly for those things. And then gradually we were able to add teams very quick once we knew those teams were set.

David Nakhla 0:20

Welcome to the Reform Deacon, a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reform Deacons. There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone. So let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another. We're so glad you could join us. Let's jump into our next episode of the Reform Deacon. My name is David Knockla. I'm coming to you today from the OPC offices in Willowgrove, Pennsylvania. If you saw the title of this episode, you may be thinking, hey, we've already covered this topic, and you'd be right. Except that I've been getting some emails and questions from people about specifics of getting started with refugee ministry. And so this is a special podcast that reflects on what we've already talked about and digs a little deeper. There's a lot to consider, and it's a very relevant topic, especially now with what's going on in Ukraine, millions of refugees fleeing this war-torn country. So we thought we'd put together sort of a follow-up episode, one that may give you more practical ways to put into action some of the principles we described in the earlier episode. Joining me once again to discuss refugee ministry in more detail is the pastor of Trinity Reform OPC in Lanham, Maryland, and also CDM member, Reverend Chris Cashin. As you may recall from the previous refugee ministry episode, Chris has a lot of experience with refugee ministry. So we're glad to be able to again tap into his knowledge and experience. Chris, welcome back.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Thanks, David. It's really great to be here. I'm looking forward to uh today's podcast. Super.

David Nakhla 1:55

Also on the show today is Jessica Holstey. Jesse and I are part of the same church, Calvary OPC in Glenside, Pennsylvania. She and others have generously volunteered to help our church as we're currently sponsoring an Afghan refugee family. Jesse has a lot of experience ministering to international people. She and her husband, Trey, lived overseas for more than 15 years in a ministry capacity. And now for the last couple of years, they've had a business where they help those who come to the states short term for medical reasons and otherwise. Jesse, thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Good to be here. Thanks for having me.

David Nakhla 2:33

After receiving some follow-up questions from my next guest, I thought it might be good to have him join us today for him to be able to discuss with us the things that he and others may be curious about regarding refugee ministry. Kenley Leslie is a member of Stanton OPC in Stanton, Virginia. Kenley is a longtime deacon in the church, and he's also happens to be my wife's uncle. Thank you for joining us, Kenley.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Thanks, David. It's great to be here.

David Nakhla 2:59

So the idea of helping a refugee family could be overwhelming to many churches. I I know it is overwhelming to churches and families. One of those things that, as a concept, sounds wonderful, amazing, but then the specifics can quickly become more than a church can handle. So can we start by talking about what a church needs to do before they ever actually help a refugee family? How can they prepare uh so that they're less overwhelmed when it comes down to it? And uh, maybe Jesse, why don't you get us started?

SPEAKER_00 3:31

Yeah, so for us, we ended up emailing with a couple of different organizations, resettlement organizations, just to see how to get involved and what we could do to get involved. At first, we actually didn't get very good response. There were a lot of different things we needed to do, and it just didn't seem like the right time. So at the end of November, actually, one of the agencies wrote us and said, Hey, we have family that's arriving next week. We really need help. Can you do this? And so for us, we just kind of had to jump into action. So for us, it was a little bit different. We did email with a couple agencies, but once we started, we didn't have a long time to prepare. So that's kind of how our start came about.

David Nakhla 4:11

It's uh it can be similar to when somebody is preparing to adopt a child, I suppose, and they suddenly get the call from the hospital that says, Hey, we, you know, we've got a family in crisis, you know, or they're available. Would you like them?

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Yes. And I think for our church, doing something like this was on our radar. And so we knew that we wanted an opportunity like this to come about. Enough people had talked about it. And so when the opportunity came and we knew we had a week to plan, and that was clothing and a house and getting everything ready for them, making sure they had food. We kind of just jumped in and were ready to go. And we didn't take a lot of time to decide. The church said, great, let's do it. I think we're ready. We have the funds and let's go for it. So, which was in some ways was kind of a blessing. We didn't, we didn't have a lot of meetings. We just jumped in and got going. And I I actually think it worked really well, despite the fact that felt a little bit chaotic in the beginning, but it actually worked really well.

David Nakhla 5:13

It was wonderful to see firsthand the response of the church. There just was a um just seemed like an undercurrent of desire to help that just kind of burst forth once the opportunity manifested itself. And it's certainly a lot of that followed yours and Carrie's significant leadership and you know, taking the front end.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

I think it was helpful that there was a real desire from the church to serve. So we weren't, it didn't feel like we were begging people to help. We had a team of, you know, 30 people instantly that said, What can we do? And we were able to put people in teams. They were able to join something that they felt used their skills or was able to work for their time commitment. And we can talk about this more later as we go about teams and those kind of things. But I think some of the team building and just that the church was hungry and ready to go was really great.

David Nakhla 6:02

So, Chris, maybe you can just help us a little bit on and talking a little bit about what Jesse alluded to is some of that kind of preparation, just interacting with resettlement agencies. What does that look like, Chris? And what advice would you have?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Yeah, I think resettlement agencies are the way to begin a ministry, whether it's the entire church or individuals. Um, I appreciate uh what Jesse said in terms of contacting various resettlement agencies and not getting a response initially. Right now, the resettlement agencies are kind of overwhelmed, just the magnitude of those people coming uh to this country and seeking help. Now you'd think that they they would jump at the chance for folks, but it takes them a while to get back up to speed. You have to remember that a few years ago or a year ago, there weren't refugees coming, and uh we had a low number of refugees, and so their staffs were diminished, and uh so they had to take time to get back up to speed. So uh there are times when the refugee agencies don't respond quickly, but keep persistent. You know, how can you prepare by asking the Lord to give you patience? Refugee ministry requires patience, much patience, and patience with the resettlement agencies as well, or those organizations that are working with the resettlement agencies. So yeah, the the first step is gonna be to contact resettlement agencies. There, some of them are gonna want you to go through orientation, some of them are gonna want you to go through training, some of them are gonna want you to have background checks before you engage, others aren't. We're in a unique situation, unique time. If they can get folks to help move a family into an apartment, they're gonna waive all those kinds of things. So I would encourage uh folks who are listening to go to the UN HCR website and you're gonna find a list there of resettlement agencies. And you also find a button there on that particular webpage that's gonna tell you click here and you're gonna find resettlement agencies in your area that you can contact. So uh if you've got one person in the church that would like to head that up, that would be the great way to start contacting them, getting your name out, and then wait upon them to contact you.

David Nakhla 8:07

Thank you, Chris, for the reminder of the re-ramp up that these resettlement agencies are undergoing. And as you said, there were there were no refugees just a few years ago under the previous administration, and then this current administration has really opened the doors to refugees. And then we had the whole Afghan crisis, and that in the Ukraine situation is gonna add more to that, I'm sure. Jesse, if I were, if I remember correctly, even the the family that we were helping, the resettlement agency we were working with, this was her first case.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Correct. Our family, I think, was actually just the second family that our agency had. They've had a lot more since then. But yeah, they were kind of getting back into it, as Chris said. So there was just a lot to pull together. There were some unanswered questions for them. They were trying to figure out some answers at the same time as trying to help us. And yes, agree.

David Nakhla 8:58

So taking a step back, maybe describe a little about what ministering to one refugee family might look like. Is it a daily interaction, maybe a couple of times a week? How do you organize the interaction with them? How's that worked out for Calvary, Jesse?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So for us, it's pretty much a daily interaction. Try to have someone down at the house almost every day of the week. And part of that's due to ESL. But since the beginning, we've tried to kind of become a part of their family and them become a part of the Calvary family. So for us, our interaction is from the moment they got here that they were at the airport to getting them food to clothing to housing to setting up their home. Our interaction is almost daily, doctors' appointments, ESL, different stuff. So yeah, we I would say we're we have a we have a family calendar for them. So we know who's going in the house each day and what's what's happening that day, who has an appointment, and maybe which member of Calvary is actually going that day. It's not seven days a week, but I would say at least five to six. We usually we typically have someone there. Or if not, via phone, we're in contact with the fathers almost daily, just due to making sure they remember about appointments or different things for the kids' school or the kind of the next step in the process.

David Nakhla 10:18

And can you maybe during this, now I know it's been about three months, and so the resettlement agency's term of working with this family has waned, or maybe is even is even finishing up, but can you maybe contrast the involvement that the church has had with what a resettlement agency, their frequency of contact with the family during that period of time?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Yeah, so I I think it's probably a little bit different for everyone from what I gather talking to some other churches, but um our agency really did all of the front end of the paperwork part. So getting them, making sure that they have SNAP benefits, which is essentially food stamps, and that they're signed up for they're getting their social security cards and doing a lot of the governmental paperwork for them. But once we had contact with the family, we met them. We took over pretty much most of the daily contact with them and dealing with their daily needs and kind of the next step. I don't think it's that way for them for every group, but our church was extremely eager to help and we had enough people and the agency was overloaded and they had enough going on that we were able to take some of those things off their plate that typically they would try to do with a family. But because we had the ability to do it and we had the people and the resources, we told them feel free to use that for another family because we know that another family might not be able to get everything done that we're able to do for our family.

David Nakhla 11:46

Some practical but important questions. Does the does the size of the church matter? I mean, if you you know, Calvary's a decent sized church in the OPC. What about smaller churches? How how might they support a refugee family? Maybe, Chris, you could uh respond to this. Do you think about your interaction?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

I I I want to encourage folks that are listening who who do come from smaller churches or maybe just individuals who want to serve. I really appreciate what Jesse has described and the kind of the full orbed work of the church. And it really sounds like Calvary has become the resettlement agency in a in a great sense, doing a lot of the work that a resettlement agency would typically do. These are unusual times. But I do want to encourage folks that smaller churches, individuals are certainly needed and shouldn't be put off in terms of the what you started with, David. And that is, it can be overwhelming. Let me just give you an example with our church. Our church is small. We're here just outside of Washington, D.C. And we finally had a resettlement agency contact us and say, hey, we'd like you to help. And so this past Saturday, we helped set up an apartment for a nine-member family uh from Afghanistan. And so that was a real joy for the church. And we're a small church, we're under 30, but a good number of folks turned out. We actually partnered with a church on the other side of Washington, D.C., Grace OPC. And so uh we had a member there who came and helped with his pickup truck. And so we had three pickup trucks, and we went and set up this apartment, and the family was extremely appreciative. It was a joy just for us to be involved in that little piece of welcoming this family. So I'm hoping that that morphs into a longer-term relationship. That's certainly what we want. But uh, smaller churches, individuals should be encouraged that there are multiple ways to serve uh and in little pieces. Even if you're just contacting a resellment agency and say, hey, I've got some time on Thursday afternoons, I'd like to take somebody to a doctor's appointment. Do you have do you have something for me to do? They're gonna plug you in, you'll be useful, and it would be a great blessing.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Let me uh speak to that individual person because uh we just found Sarah and I just found out about a place we made a contact, and I just asked her, okay, what do you need? She put us on a list. Sarah is busy two to three days a week with ESL with women. And so she's busy there. And it's through three various home groups. And I'm sort of a floater between various groups helping them get people into apartments. I've helped four people get into apartments so far, just because of the contacts that are had in Waynesboro, which is a a town about eight miles away, and let alone the the house and stand. So an individual that has a free time, you can get around and you can you can be a part of various groups if if you you know, if you if you've got that kind of free time, which I've enjoyed doing.

David Nakhla 14:45

Yeah, that's a great point, Kenley. As a matter of fact, I'm sure Jesse would agree that Calvary would be very welcoming if somebody, you know, like let's say you were in the area and you wanted to kind of jump on board with what we're already doing, we'd say, great, come along. Uh there's things that, I mean, there's plenty of work to do. And so, right, Jesse?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

We actually have that situation happening with us. We have another church in the area that asked us and said, Hey, we have about five people. So they jumped in our ESL team, they jumped on our transportation team, someone's gonna do computer training for the family. So that actually did happen. And another thing I was actually gonna say about this was there's another church in our area that's outside the city, just like us, sponsoring the brother of our family. And because we're all about 50 minutes, 45 minutes from our family, it can be a little bit farther. And they wanted to partner with a church in the family's neighborhood. So they found another church in the family's neighborhood that they were able to partner with. And so they have people that are very close to the family, but then they also have other people outside the city that also still wanted to help, but they felt that that would be a good way to partner and it it's worked out great.

David Nakhla 15:53

That's a great idea. Love that. The body of Christ coming together in lots of different special ways and even, you know, cross denominational boundaries that we might not normally have opportunities to interact, and yet we're one body of Christ. So that's really beautiful. Can you talk a little bit about from a financial standpoint? Well, oftentimes I think when we think about ministering to refugees, we do think about the time commitment and the going and serving and helping in all sorts of very tangible ways. Is there a financial component to this and what does that look like? Maybe Jesse, you can talk about what Calvary has done in its circumstance. And then maybe Chris, you can paint the bigger, more broad picture.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Sure. So for us, the resettlement agency does ask right up front if you are going to be a co-sponsor, which is along with the agency, so that we commit to eight to ten thousand dollars, just knowing that that may be what we spend to get the family on their feet and running and with rent and that kind of stuff. So we were able to commit to that. And that would include things such as helping to pay for certain months of their rent, along with the agency paying certain months of their rent, electric, getting internet set up for them, cell phones, these kind of things. So for us, those are some of the expenses, and then it gradually has backed off a little bit as food stamps have come in and WIC has come through, and certain government programs for electric and gas have come through now. So some of that has backed off. Our family's cash assistance is okay for a family F9, but not enough to pay all of those bills. So until they get a job, we've committed to supporting some of those financial needs that they have so that they can make it for their first six months.

David Nakhla 17:37

So our family at Calvary is on a what do they call a special?

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, they call it humanitarian parole, is what we keep getting told. Yeah, yes.

David Nakhla 17:46

And that was really uh special circumstances with the exodus from Afghanistan. But that's actually a little bit unusual. Chris, maybe you can help paint the picture a little bit with regards to a true refugee on the normal path. What what is required of the a church or co-sponsoring church from a financial standpoint? Do you would you have an answer to that?

SPEAKER_01 18:04

So, as I said, we're in unusual times. Folks that are coming, some of them don't have immigration status yet. They're not refugees in the legal sense. They haven't been identified as refugees. And since they haven't, some of the folks that are coming are not getting benefits, tax dollars, to support them. Generally speaking, a refugee would come and have somewhere around three months worth of support from, say, the government, but that means your tax dollars. And so that means that that family's got about three months of ability to learn English, find a job, get their children in school, and then get on their feet. And the government provides that cushion so that they're able to survive. And that's the way things would typically work with a person that's been identified as a refugee in the legal definition. And so the uh the financial commitment from a church or an individual helping out would be should be zero because the government is providing those funds. Now, do the resettlement agencies ask for donations? Absolutely, they do. And so you can do that. But generally speaking, if a refugee has that status, they have funds coming from the government to support them. And so as the church jumps in, the church can provide transportation, do whatever the church wants to do. But generally speaking, there's not going to be a contract or a commitment to providing a certain amount of funds. But because others are coming who don't have that, now in Calvary's situation, you all have committed to providing that support, which a true refugee would actually get from the government.

David Nakhla 19:42

Jesse, would you help paint the picture of, okay, so you so Calvary said yes, meaning financial commitment. Yep, we're we're in, we're ready to take this family. How did you organize, divide the labor? Portant concept, divide the labor. What did that look like? Maybe you could uh list off the different categories of skills and areas of service.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

So because we knew it was we had about five, five to seven days to plan. I don't even know if it was seven actually. We had such a short amount of time to plan. We knew we needed to cover three major things, which was housing, food, and clothing. So we needed to make sure that they had those three things set. We made sure we got teams together instantly for those things. And then gradually we were able to add teams very quickly once we know that we knew those teams were set. So our family, we were able to get them into an Airbnb until we were able to find an affordable home for them in the city. We had a team that was ready to get culturally appropriate groceries for them and a team that was going to make some meals for them in the beginning. Just because when you move to a new country and you have to try to find food that works for you and that you like, sometimes it's a little bit hard. So we had some families in the church making rice and chicken dishes, that kind of thing. And we needed to make sure we had a team getting clothing together that kind of evolved as we went because we were just told we have a family of nine, they're all boys, all the kids are boys, and these are the ages. So we did the best we could with what we had, but people wanted to donate and we had more clothing than we ever could have used. Then we were able to get through, we were able to get sizes that we needed for them. So once those three teams came together, we were able to add very quickly transportation, which was an important thing because we needed to get them to appointments in the beginning. And part of our transportation team was also teaching them how to use public transportation in the city, which is crucial to their living. And then we added an ESL team very quickly. One week of sitting in the home, not knowing where to go, what to do. You don't really have any money to spend. Gets pretty boring very quickly. And English is a was a great use of their time. So we had one person start, two people started, and now we're up to a team. Of 11. So that kind of came along. And then after a couple weeks, we got a medical team together. We had a housing team that was able to put together all the supplies that their new house would need. And then we moved on to a moving team. So it's just gradually changed. We're now we're moving into an employment team. Our family was attached to an organization to find employment, and that just hasn't been successful for us. So we've decided we're going to start that part. We're going to take on that part for them. And so that team is getting coordinated. And now we're moving more into social events. So we're trying to get together with some of the other churches in the area that are supporting Afghan families. And so we're going to get those families together with our churches and their churches and do a big picnic. There's an event for any of the Afghan families in the Philadelphia area happening soon. So we're moving towards these kind of things and then having the church do social events with them. So people have donated some money for them to go bowling. To someone just asked me yesterday, hey, can I donate some money for them to do another activity with the church family? Which is great. So it's kind of evolved over time. So starting with the basics to now we're moving into how do we get them into a rhythm of life?

David Nakhla 23:13

It's been neat to see how there are those who are willing and able to serve. And then there's those who maybe have a full life and can't, but they have the means to contribute. And so they've donated, I can't take them bowling, but here's $100. So you can take them bowling. And uh those who are willing to take them bowling, go and and but it's not costing them out of their pocket. And so it's kind of working together that way.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

And you know, we've had a number of people ask us, hey, we have some funds from friends. Is there something that the family could use right now? Right now, we actually don't have any apartment needs for them, housing needs. We were able to get all of that um through Facebook or through family donations, different things, but hold it because something might come up and we want you to feel like you have something specific that you're giving to.

David Nakhla 23:56

I think one of the things that struck me as I've kind of seen this develop, is that so much of the ministry to this family, think of it as your a family in your church who's going through a significant crisis event, time. So it's like kind of all hands on deck. But the nature of the work is very, you know, it's daily life stuff that we all can relate to. You know, it's shopping, it's, you know, finding clothes, it's finding school schools. I mean, it's all things that are very much a part of our lives, but it's so much of it so new to them. And so just walking alongside them as they enter this new world, it doesn't oftentimes take a special gifting to do this work. The main thing is a willingness to to give of time and talent and treasure to to put forward. And the Lord, the Lord uses that in lots of special ways. Kenley, you've had some opportunities to be involved in a little bit. Can you share some of that?

SPEAKER_02 24:52

Uh yes. Getting involved with what I've been doing is all the uh refugees were initially housed in a hotel. The home groups were trying to get them into out of the hotels at least one day a week and so forth. So there was uh transportation to the YMCA so that they could get around, have some time playing basketball, kicking a soccer ball around, getting them out, and so forth. And I've just watched that group, I haven't been a part of it all, but they, you know, they've been trying to get people out. And then, of course, the helping some of those families move into uh apartments. That's been another thing. There is uh another situation in Stanton itself, which is much closer to where I live, is a group of uh a family of uh six plus uh some men who are single, either married without family or um uh unmarried in a one big house, and they've needed transportation to work, to get food, to get to the DMV. Now it's a lot of the transportation has to do with um getting to and from uh ESL classes. So there's that's been you know, my uh involvement. I've gotten involved with meeting and being in the homes of a couple of these families that Sarah has done ESL, and we've had some informal contacts uh with with them as well. Somebody donated a bunch of flat screen CVs, and so I've done some technical things there trying to help them get things like that hooked up. Try to set up a house from scratch. That's what these people need. Just think about everything you had that had to happen.

David Nakhla 26:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 26:32

Once you've got a house, what you got to do to get it ready for living in?

David Nakhla 26:36

Yep. Set up your house and your life, right? I mean, you know, exactly finding finding doctors, finding the grocery store, I mean, finding the post office. I mean, everything that we kind of take for granted in our settled life. And then you add the component of, oh, by the way, you don't speak the language. Um I was talking to my son, Marcus. I had the opportunity to take Marcus when I went and spent a day with our family and my son on the way back. I said, I hope you realize how blessed you are. I said, Can you imagine being dropped into the middle of some town or village in the middle of Afghanistan? And you were told, you know, start a new life here. I mean, that's essentially that's you know, the flip of what they're experiencing, and you know, where do you even start and the volume of things that you need to accomplish? And transportation is a big one. Our family happens to be in the city where there's lots of public transportation, but a lot of our churches aren't in the city, and a lot of these refugees are not settled in the city, and so transportation is huge as there's so much that they need to be running around taking care of. And so that's really a great way to serve. Let's talk about the process of mobilizing the church to get involved, recruiting people. Uh, Jesse, it sounds like at Calvary they were hungry to be involved. And so there was not a lot that had to be done there, but maybe you can just reflect any of you want to reflect on that a little bit about ideas on how to mobilize a church to serve.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Sure. For us, as soon as we knew kind of what was happening and what we needed to do for teams, we were able to put some Google documents and signups together and we put them out in emails to the church along with on our church Facebook page so that people could, you know, sign up for what they were interested in. And then a hub was created, a Google Hub where they could click on there to see what was still needed, or did the teams change, or did a new need arise? That kind of thing. So and then other individuals were able to talk to others in the church and say, hey, I've been doing this. This has been a great experience. Why don't you come with me while I do ESL? You might really love it. And so that has been helpful too as another way of recruiting uh within the church. So ours was mostly through Facebook and email and just meeting and talking with people. And then once we kind of got started, it can be intimidating and people feel nervous about the interaction. Is it gonna be awkward? I'm not sure if I can do this, that kind of thing. But once people said, Hey, I've been doing this, why don't you come along and see? It is awkward sometimes the first time, but let's do it. And the second time it's less awkward, that kind of thing. So different ways.

David Nakhla 29:22

You'd say it's natural to be intimidated or to feel awkward.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

Yeah, you just don't know. I mean, you don't know. Are they gonna talk a lot or are they not gonna talk? Oh, they don't speak almost nobody speaks English in the house except for one person, and theirs is very basic. Are we gonna be able to communicate what we need to do today? Am I gonna mess up? Am I gonna do something wrong when I walk in the house? You know, that kind of thing. But you just go and you do it. And the next time it's more comfortable, and then the next time it's even more comfortable.

David Nakhla 29:48

Yeah, as somebody who has a lot of international experience, particularly in a in a culture, you were in a country that was very different from the United States. Do you do you have any advice or encouragement with regards to how to move forward in these cross-cultural settings?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

So my theory is just to go do it. So I just I know it's gonna be awkward the first time that I meet them, the very first day that we met them. I know everyone was a little bit nervous and said, like, what are we supposed to do? How do we interact? Just go. They can see in your face that you want to help them, you want to get to know them, that you want to communicate even though you can't. And so I would say the most important thing is just to just do it. And if you feel very, very uncomfortable, bring someone. And that's okay too, because that is just adds another level of comfort. You feel like you have someone to kind of bounce ideas off of, and you may want to read up a little bit about of their culture ahead of time. We've we had a few sheets that people passed along to say, you know, you use your right hand always and we don't shake with the left, you don't take food with your left hand, and you take your shoes off at the door, that kind of thing. So there were certain things, but we all learn as you go along, you're like, oh, I think I'm learning this from them. Next time I won't do that. I'm observing this from them. Great, you know.

SPEAKER_02 31:06

Yes. We okay, when we meet anybody in our own language new, what do we ask about? We ask, oh, what do you do? Where you live, about your family. And uh, one of the things that we've discovered is, you know, they want to talk about family. And so, okay, you ask about, yes, some of the stories they tell is not good because some of their family is in very bad situations, some of them okay, and just say, okay, you have family because some of these men have wives and kids still back in Afghanistan. And so you can have an opportunity to let them talk about their family.

David Nakhla 31:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

And get the Google translator app for your phone. Yeah, it works okay. You might want to double check that any kind of translation you do, and I've I've done it and it comes out okay. I've done it and it comes out a little different, so you have to reword it. But there's one guy, probably over half the conversation I have with this man is through the translator app. Either I'm talking at it or I'm typing something. He's talking at it or typing something. You can communicate.

David Nakhla 32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

Yep.

David Nakhla 32:21

I I like to talk about the ministry of presence, and sometimes it's just being there with them, you trying with them, you stumbling forward with them, communicates so much to them. And as they are, you know, they have all sorts of fears that we don't even know about, they have trauma that we don't even know about, and they're all alone. There's a sense of being all alone, and for you to come alongside and try is uh there's a lot of grace, I think, both ways, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:50

Yeah, yes.

David Nakhla 32:51

Chris, you have anything to add to that in your experience?

SPEAKER_01 32:54

I spent a lot of time just sitting and saying nothing, which is okay, right? Oh, yeah. Yes, of course. I don't find the Google translator to work very well for Arabic or Pashtu or Dari. And so there was much time when it was just quiet. Now, the children, if they've been in the United States for any length of time, will be the ones who are become the translators. And so I'm usually would be talking with children who would then talk with their parents. So just uh yes, it's it's okay to sit and say nothing and drink a lot of tea.

David Nakhla 33:27

We have um we've talked about um working on getting people behind the project and getting established. Maybe we could talk a little bit more about the people themselves. What should we expect from refugee families? How scared or skeptical of us might they be? I guess we reflected on that just a little bit here.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Yeah, you know, we we actually asked those questions in the beginning. What's it gonna be like? Do you think they're gonna trust us? But for our family, besides our resettlement agency, we were kind of their lifeline in some type of way. We provided all of their food in the beginning. We had to make sure that they had everything they need to cook in the house. And when there was a sick baby, we we had to deal with it. So trust was formed pretty quickly because of that reason. But also when we said we'll be there tomorrow with food, we were there tomorrow with food. And when they called and said, Hey, we need more apples, we're out of apples and bread, which is some very basic important things. We were there the next day with apples and bread. And so, or when they called in, even a small thing, like, hey, we need a pot, this pot isn't working. I mean, what we have here, or my wife hurt her finger, we really need to go to the doctor. If someone was there, we can we can do it. We're gonna help you and we're gonna figure it out. So I think that they learned to trust pretty quickly. So for us, that was our experience. Yeah.

David Nakhla 34:50

But that trust was built upon you being faithful and responsive. I mean, that's that's what it's built on.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yes. The fact that there were people present a lot in the beginning, especially and continues to be. The people who are serving with them now with ESL are very faithful. I come every Monday and I take you for groceries and we do ESL together. I will be here every other Thursday. They're there every other Thursday. And it doesn't mean that you can't miss or something like that. But the people who say they're going to help have been very faithful in their service.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

So the uh uh refugees we've been dealing with mostly are um been had interaction with the military over in Afghanistan. So that there seems, I think there was a lot of their understanding of Americans through their interactions with the military. And I and so I think there was some familiarity with Americanisms and so forth before they came over for those who that I've interacted with. Uh, so I I don't know that there was a lot of trust issues. You know, they seem to be real open with whatever I was able to get involved with, whatever the home groups were getting involved with.

David Nakhla 36:01

Can you talk a little bit about what a church might expect with regards to them being interested in the church? Do we could just expect that they're going to come to our church now? We're helping them, so they're gonna come to our church. Can you guys speak to that a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 36:14

We invited one family that we had, Sarah doing a little ESL to the Christmas Eve service, which was basically scriptures and some carols singing. And they chose not to do that. That is the extent that we have done anything from our standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 36:32

Yeah, we had the family come. We invited them one Sunday for a Sunday school hour that we were doing an update on the family and kind of our our ministry experience and needs still. And so the family came and it was great because the church was able to meet them. A lot of them had already met them, so it was great for them to reconnect with them. And then because their English is pretty limited, you know, a lot of things that were spoken about didn't mean much to them because they didn't understand it. But we we just had them stay for the Sunday school while we did that part, and then we invited them for a meal, a family in our church. A couple families got together and had them for a meal and then took them home. So that was, I think we would actually really like to continue to invite them. I think at this point we realize where the language is is very basic. The father of the house of our house speaks very basic English, and the rest of them have very it's coming, but it's minimal. So coming to listen to a service that you really don't understand anything feels kind of hard and maybe a little bit painful to them. So I think our ministry in their home and social events and the little bit that we can talk about is our faith with them as we can kind of say things or pray with them when they moved into their new home. This is where we're this is where we're feeling like our ministry level is at right now. We did give them a book of Psalms yesterday in their language. So we we would like that to progress, obviously, but language is an important piece of that so that you can have some discussions and we can put the Pashtu Bible on their phone and for listening. So it also depends if people read that kind of thing. So our family happens, uh, not everyone reads in our family in pat in their language. So some of these things we just need some language to come along, and I think it will be a little bit different. And that's okay, because I think our ministry of presence right now and um the things that we can do are solid.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

I think uh everyone understands that most coming from Afghanistan are going to be Muslim. And while many are not practicing to the extent that as the call to prayer goes out, they're hitting the rug, but they they have a understanding of the Quran. They they know that Jesus Christ is a prophet, but obviously they they do not worship the one living and true God. And so I don't want us to miss that, uh and I don't think we have, that the the purpose of this ministry is clearly, and I I'm I'm grateful for Calvary and for Kendally um and and the work that's being done, to shine the light of Christ. And all of this is doing that. Um, you mentioned trust, and so uh yes, I I think as you serve these families, as you serve individuals, there is going to be a level of trust. Are they going to be willing to uh drop Islam and start worshiping the true and living God and come to worship services? God can do anything in all things. That hasn't been my experience. We certainly invited a family to come to it was either Thanksgiving or a Christmas, oh, it was a it was a music program of the church. And that was the last time that they darkened the doors of the church. We've had families that are engaged, have been engaged in after-school programs with us. But as soon as they found out that we were using scripture uh within those after-school programs, the children were pulled out. So I I appreciate and I would urge uh as you have that ministry of presence, that possibly even before you go into the home, you're praying that the Lord would work through you, even shining that light of Christ as you bring that bread or provide that transportation. And certainly, uh, I have never had an Afghan or any family say, No, please don't pray for me. I I will ask, may I pray for you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ? And I've never had anyone say no. So those are the kinds of things that we can be doing. And the Lord will work, and if they're willing to accept the scriptures, we should be giving those to them. It's a it's a long-term ministry. And so uh the encouragement in this podcast is continue to do these things, and the Lord will uh will have mercy upon those that He will have mercy and compassion upon those He will have compassion. But every time you go, you're showing the love of Christ. So I would encourage us to continue in that.

David Nakhla 41:00

Can I ask um what you think that fruit from this ministry might look like?

SPEAKER_01 41:09

I'm gonna say for me that the fruit looks like growth in grace and the love of Christ for the congregation. I think that's where the fruit is. I praise God as He brings Afghans into the kingdom. And I know, I know we will, but I think the fruit that we should be initially looking for and expecting would be that growth in the individual congregants and individual members in the church as they're loving their Lord Jesus Christ and displaying that and loving their neighbors. I think that's where the majority of growth is, and uh that's what we we should be praying for as well, certainly conversions. But uh as we minister, that's the growth in grace and the fruit, I think, is is in that place.

David Nakhla 41:55

The Lord really uses these ministries to draw the congregation together, to draw us out of ourselves to sacrifice and to serve. And as our savior has said, it's more blessed to give than to receive. And that is the experience I think of all those who are willing to give of themselves to this ministry. As we get ready to close here, we've tried sought to have this podcast take something maybe overwhelming and boil down to maybe a little bit more manageable. So as a as a listener or church is again feeling overwhelmed by all that we've talked about. Could we both go back and maybe leave our listeners with two or three things to get started? Simple steps to get started. Keep it simple, but uh maybe two or three things total.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Uh, I'm gonna say pray. Pray. That's simple. Uh, it's undervalued, we don't do it enough, but this is the way the Lord works. We need to be praying that our hearts would be open to the stranger, that we would be those who be loving our neighbors, and these Afghans are our neighbors in such a way that the Lord Jesus Christ would be pleased. And so that's the simple way. That's how we prepare, that's how we overcome our anxiety, that's how we overcome our worries, that's how we meet the financial obligations, that's how we don't have accidents as we're traveling back and forth. We we pray and we ask the Lord to bless our efforts and we ask the Lord to prepare our hearts to meet our neighbors.

David Nakhla 43:30

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Yeah, I think I would, I mean, on a practical level, I would say make teams, but on a very like wide picture view, I would say just go and bring a friend. Like we said, it can be awkward and people feel nervous and we're not sure what's gonna happen, and we can't, you know, we're not sure how it's gonna be, but just go and whether that's one person in your church serving, like we've been talking with Kenley, or doing it with a small group, or a whole church doing it, I would say take action and bring someone along.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Sort of reiterate what uh Jesse had to say, you know, just get out involved if you're you know, somebody that's in an area like myself where there's a group somewhere, see if there's a group you can get involved with. And I I want to thank Jesse for encouraging me to start asking somebody else in the church to come along with me, which I have not done yet.

David Nakhla 44:25

So, and if I could just add to that, just going to the as Chris alluded to before, the UNHCR website, we'll you will find the resettlement agencies in your area, and through those, that'll give you access to um who is serving in your area and where those serve where they're serving, and uh that would be a start for you. So pray, divide the work, make teams, go and bring a friend, reach out to the resettlement agency. Great ways to start. And uh we I think all of us would pray that the Lord would bless all your efforts and He will do it. Thank you, each one of you, for joining us today. Chris, Jesse, Kenley, a fruitful conversation and uh blessings in your various areas of ministry. Thank you, David.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Thank you.

David Nakhla 45:15

Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us. Go to our website, thereformdeacon.org. There you will find all our episodes, program notes, and other helpful resources. And please make plans to join us again next month for another episode of the Reform Deacon Podcast.