SPEAKER_00 0:02

There's different passages that you may have read before, but then when you come to the mission field, they really really stick out to you, and one of those is that the harvest is plentiful and the workers are few. This is the acneau work on steroids here, and there's a great, great need, and there's not enough workers.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Welcome to the Reform Deacon, a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed Deacons. There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone. So let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another. We're so glad you could join us. Let's jump into our next episode of the Reformed Deacon. My name is David Nokka, and you may have guessed I'm not in my office, but I'm actually out in the field here in Karamoja, Uganda. And today I have with me Mark Vanessendelt, who serves as missionary deacon and facilities engineer here for the Karamoja Mission Station. Mark has been here for four years now. Wow. And he has a furlough coming up, but uh has had a good bit of experience, and so thought it'd be very helpful for our deacons to hear from Mark directly about his work. And so hopefully this is an encouragement to to you all. Welcome to the program, Mark. Thank you. Good to have you. Okay, Mark, let's start with the fact that being in Uganda is a different world from almost every listener of this podcast. Can we take just some time and lead us through a typical day or a couple days in your life on the field? Talk to us. What does it look like to be a missionary deacon in Uganda?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Well, I would say the diaconal work might look different in many ways than in the US. The principles are the same. We have uh this is diaconal work on steroids. It's just a a a greater need. The people of this region are this is the poorest district in Uganda, and it's probably one of the poorest districts in the world. So obviously we deal with a lot of hunger, a lot of death, death that could be prevented. A lot of people die from malaria here. So, you know, there's lots of needs that come to the gate every day. What we deal a lot with is hunger, but we deal with a lot of medical needs as well. We deal with just problems in families that people have. Yeah, we try to discern those needs and meet them the best we can.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Yeah, so I imagine you have some sort of rhythm to your life here. What does your week look like maybe?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Yeah, so probably on a daily basis, I have people that come to my gate and have some kind of requests, and we usually screen those people. When I first came here, the diaconal work was done solely by the mission. So people would come to the mission with needs, and the mission would make decisions on those diaconal needs, whether it was the deacon or the pastor or another layperson would make those diaconal decisions. Now, since I've been here, we are trying to establish a local church, and we've established a mercy committee that consists of right now six members of the church. There are two women and four men on that committee. And so what we do now is if it is a need that we think that the local church can handle, we channel people off to that committee. And that has been a huge help for begging at our gates. And uh so people know if it's an illegitimate need, they don't even come to the mercy committee. If it's a legitimate need, it's screened by the local people. This way that the people in the church know who's trying to deceive and who's not. They know uh the assets that people have, and uh so it's really eliminated a lot of unnecessary strain on the mission as far as those kind of unnecessary needs. Now we do, as a mission, we still do have uh needs that are bigger than the local church can handle because obviously the funds aren't there in the local church, and so there are needs, uh medical needs often that we will meet through the through the mission. And I still often do utilize the mercy committee from the church to help guide through those decisions and uh wise courses of action, and we often sometimes even use the medical staff at the clinic to help with making those decisions.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Can you give some examples of some of the needs that have come to the mercy committee?

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah, we uh often probably the latest case, a typical case. We have a a woman who's a widow. Her husband actually used to work for the mission and died prematurely. He was in his low forties. He died, got sick, and just died, and she was left with four small children. She's not a church member, but she attends church, and we have taken her and we provide her with a little bit of food to help meet at least the physical needs of the family. We have the ministry team that also meets with her from time to time and seeks to guide her spiritually. This year we hope with this woman to donate to her like a half an acre of land and have it plowed for her, and then she can seed it and weed the garden, and uh that that will help provide for her, and it'll also have her to have an input in in supplying for her needs. So we're trying to be generous and help, but also have her help in a way that she can and she's able to do you have other responsibilities here beyond the diaconal work? Yeah, you know, I as far as the facilities, I d obviously oversee the the maintenance and daily needs of of the physical plant, and so that's takes up a good chunk of my work. And the first couple years I was here that took up a bigger chunk of my work because there was a lot of uh things that needed attention. So we worked on that, and in the last two years I've really concentrated on the local church and the DIAC in it and trying to structure that better in the local church and uh establish the local church where it's capable of operating independent of the mission.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Have you seen this mercy committee developing in your time here?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Oh, certainly. It was non-existent when I came. So there was a mercy committee, but it was a mercy committee of the mission. Okay. And so all the funds that were used were only mission funds. Okay. And so we have slowly tried to transition that to the local church, and that has been really in the last two years, uh, we've made a pretty significant headway in that where the funds are totally separate from the mission. So we have a book that if there's a need, two mercy committee members sign out funds from the church fund, and that was that has never been done before. And actually, in the last three months, we've really made it that that headway and in making that a reality.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

So and then even leaving them or having members of the church actively involved in outreach or yeah, particularly diaconal outreach, what does that look like? Or some examples of that?

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Yeah, so obviously Joyce is a huge part of the Mercy Committee, probably the the pillar. Really sad that she couldn't be the first deacon, but uh um she she really participates heavily in diaconal work, in uh screening needs, even ahead of the mercy committee. And actually, when there's a death, just uh two days ago we had a death of a mission employee's husband, and um she really headed up that for the mercy committee and arranged things. And another way that we've done that is the last two years we've had a a field dedicated, a one-acre field dedicated to some orphans that we support, and we grew sorghum, and uh we had a a weeding day and a picking day for the congregation. So we had about 15 people come out and help weed and pick. So that that was a way that um not just the mercy committee but the congregation could get involved in mercy work, and that's it's really uh been encouraging, I think, for the for the congregation.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Joyce is the Caramajong lady, she's been here a long time. I was here first in 2001. She was cooking for the mission and the lunches way back then and continues to do so. Yeah. I think I've heard that she's been taking in a lot of orphans, yeah, even though she's widowed herself. Yeah. And uh yeah, just a wonderful Christ-like uh figure here, huh?

SPEAKER_00 9:42

Yeah, we need a few more people like her. A few more joices. Yeah, a few more joices.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Oftentimes deacons stateside, you know, find that there's not a legitimate need being requested, have to say no. What does that look like here in Uganda?

SPEAKER_00 9:56

Is it would you say it's not that different or yeah, I mean it's common here because when you're an American, you're looked upon as a money tree. And so in the Karamajung, in this culture, maybe I can say generally in Africa, I'm not sure, but certainly in Uganda and particularly in Karamoja, uh it is not shameful to beg. So people will beg unnecessarily sometime just to see if they can get something from you. So screening needs with the mercy committee, sending people to the mercy committee because they know that if it goes to the mercy committee, they're not gonna get their request if it's if it's deceit. So sometimes people will come and say, Yeah, I need this or that, and we say, Okay, come to the mercy committee on Friday, and but they won't show up. So we know already that it was an illegitimate need. But uh most of the needs that have actually come to the committee have been legitimate, and I don't I don't think one need that's come to the mercy committee in the last two years has been turned away as as some kind of deceit. But we we still turn away many at the gates of the mission that um that are deceiving. But there there are a huge amount of needs here. I mean there are legitimate needs every day that come. And um so so it's it is large, but there is a lot of deceit to that that we have to say no, and it's okay. We don't we don't feel bad about that when people are deceiving.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Their wealth is portrayed significantly differently than our wealth. If you talk about assets here, what would be assets that that they would have?

SPEAKER_00 11:42

So assets uh what we would think of like a retirement account, a 401k, they they view cows that way. They don't view cows as meat to eat, they view it cows as a bank account. So yeah, that's the way they build wealth. The main way that they build wealth is through cows or goats. Uh everything is traded in this economy. Big things like uh dowry is a big thing here. So if you want to have a wife, you have to have cows. You can't pay paper money for your dowry. You have to have cows and goats, and that's the only way you can get a pay the dowry for a wife. Land is becoming uh more of an asset that's that's viewed as an asset. Historically, the Karamas Young are nomadic, so they don't really view land as they view all the land as theirs. Uh but now they're getting getting chased off of land. Now they can buy a piece of land and call it an asset and and see it that way.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

And I imagine that's where the mercy committee's helpful because you know you may not see you you don't know who owns what cows, but they probably do. Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yeah. So that's a thing too that we I I came up with a list, a very basic, very basic list of questions to ask by the mercy committee before help is granted. Okay. And one of those is what are the assets of this person and their immediate family? Right. Because, you know, we often have people come and ask for help. For example, someone will come and ask for help for a medical need, which is a big need for the amount of money that they have, but they will hide the fact that they have two or three cows that they could sell to pay for this need. So that's one of the questions we ask. On the Mercy Committee, they're kind of spread out in each village, so we kind of have someone from each village that has a little bit of an idea of what the assets of different families are, so we can view those things.

SPEAKER_01 13:55

Yeah, good, very helpful. As you've settled into your work, can you talk about maybe the initial enthusiasm versus the reality? And were you prepared, surprised, overwhelmed?

SPEAKER_00 14:07

I don't think you can ever be prepared to live in a place like this when you come from a culture like we come from. Right. So, um, you know, there's a big learning curve and you s you spend the first two years just learning what a different culture values. And the more you understand how people think, the better you can help them. And so, you know, after four years, I you know, there's still a lot of things that you don't understand, but you're I think I understand better now than than when I came. The enthusiasm, I I I can't say it's any different. I get excited about uh helping people in Jesus' name and and telling them about Christ when we do it, and that that's always exciting, has always been exciting. I don't think the that excitement has diminished over time. I think probably I'm more effective now um just because of the better understanding you have, so so you you're more wise in in the way you approach things. Whereas when you first come you just you believe everything. Right. And uh you don't know what you don't know. Right, exactly. So yeah, I think it's more fruitful. The the ministry is more fruitful over time. And uh especially when you see things like the the mercy committee taking hold and the local church being able to make those decisions, that's very exciting for me to see those kind of things happening.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

So that's like the work on the field and and but maybe now the the life of the deacon on the field. Can you talk a little bit about your your your family and how family fits into the work and how they support you in the work?

SPEAKER_00 15:57

Yeah, our family, we have a large family. We have nine children currently, and which uh two are in the U.S. one is in Kenya schooling, and six are at home. And yeah, it's been for the older kids, it's been difficult. The old the older two that are in the U.S. Um, when they came here they were uh early teens, and that was a difficult transition. I'm glad they're back home and in in their environment, but they've always supported the work very well. My wife allows me the time that we need. Sometimes we get called out in the middle of the night and at odd times, and uh yeah, I like to take my children along on uh some of the ventures, going out into the village. It's a lot of funerals we have to go to, help with, uh just different needs, and I try to involve my family as much as possible in those things, and they enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

And uh your wife, what has she gotten involved with, or what aspects of the work does she enjoy?

SPEAKER_00 17:00

In the mission, I I would say she's she's very involved. Early on, we started what we call it the soap ministry, but it's uh where kids can come to the gate on Tuesday and they can learn memory verses and they can get either soap or pens or papers for school. So it allows kids that don't have the money to to buy books and stuff that they can just m memorize scripture. They don't have to be a church member, they don't know requirements, they just need to learn the scripture either in in the Karamajung language or in English. And we have some kids that are phenomenal. We had a kid a few weeks ago memorize over four chapters at one time, recited four chapters. It's unbelievable the memory that some of the kids have. So that's one thing. My wife is also involved in a women's Bible study on Sunday morning, which they have anywhere from eight to fifteen ladies that she and uh Joanna co-teach. We also have as a family uh we're supporting a sewing teacher to teach some of the young ladies we work with a skill in that aspect. That's what kind of what my wife is involved in outside the home. She obviously she homeschools our kids, and that's a big job in and of itself.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

Do you feel like you've seen fruit in your labors and your time here? Yeah, maybe you can talk about that, or maybe even just on the other side, uh, dis discouragements, um, just being real.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yeah, I you know, there's an I'll maybe start with the discouragements that yeah, you get disappointed by people, you invest a lot of time and money into some people and training and in discipleship, and we've been let down a few times. But, you know, you can get overly discouraged about that, and you don't have to look beyond yourself to see how many discouragements you have in yourself. So, you know, when you look at the way God looks at us and uh sees our shortcomings, and yeah, we have to be prepared for that, and you know, you're not gonna get a 100% return of investment, and so we don't get overly discouraged about that. Um that's just life. Jesus spent a lot of years and had Judas, you know. So early on when I was here, when I first came, we would travel down to Kampala or somewhere, and you'd run into people in stores, and you would run into someone like a school teacher or someone that had a profession that was sponsored to school by some Christian somewhere, and to see where they are now, and then those are the types of things that we're trying to do now is we're sponsoring as a mission, we're sponsoring some kids to school, and personally we sponsor some kids to school, and then also disciple them when they're on their breaks, and so you hope the hope is that they will be the future of the church here in Karamoja, that they will be, if not the leaders, at least participants in the local church, faithful members, and that would all work towards a self-supporting, self-governing, self-propagating church. And so those are the the goals. They're the encouragement. Some of the growth we've seen in some of these young men and ladies uh have been very encouraging. You know, one couple that uh really wanted to have a Christian marriage, persecuted by their own family, she was beaten severely by her family because uh she married a poorer Christian and uh they didn't get the cows that they wanted, and they so they took took their wrath out on her and and beat her. But it was encouraging to see that, even though it's terrible in what it is, to to see someone a person that you've had influence in taking persecution for Christ. And so that that's been really encouraging. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Mark, how how can we in the US encourage you, pray for you, serve you?

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Well, it's always encouraging when you come. I I uh really appreciate your visits and and the encouragement you bring. We've been we have been already very encouraged by the prayers of uh the churches of the OPC. We've received some uh nice cards from from different churches and the encouragement that they're continue to pray for us. So all those things are encouraging. Sometimes you do feel lonely here and yeah, it's really nice, you know, if other deacons would want to come out here and just see what it's like. I know it's difficult, it's a long ways and but uh yeah, it's always encouraging, really encouraging when people come out uh to visit here and see the work we're doing. And can go back with a with a renewed vision of what what they're doing in their local church.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

Mark, um wearing my other hat, short term missions coordinator. Um I remember my trip here in 2001, very impactful in my life. Sell the opportunity to for a visit here. Why why should somebody take a chunk of time, several weeks, three weeks maybe, invest a bit of money to come here and experience, maybe serve a little, but really be a part of this. What what's going to be their takeaway?

SPEAKER_00 22:38

I think about when we talk to our children, and we want our children to get a bigger view, we we tell them you have to look outside yourself. And I have seen with myself, I I started doing short-term mission trips myself, and it really changes your perspective when you get outside of your bubble. And I think that that's the most impactful thing that can happen to a person to come to Karamoja is you get outside your bubble and you see the world from a different perspective, and it changes the way you live at home, and uh it changes the values in the local church, and it just gives you a different perspective, and I think that's very helpful whether you keep going in short-term or long-term service, or if you go back home and are impacted in your local sphere of where you're serving. I either which way it's gonna be fruitful.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah. I like to say that short-term missions will change you. Yeah, you're not gonna come back unchanged. Yeah, and uh it's it is one of the highlights of your life, you know, as you think back to you know, that year, you know, I think back to certain years, like that was the year I went to, wherever. And this is a special place. This isn't you know just any short-term mission strip. This is Karamu is very unique in a lot of ways. Yes. We didn't talk, there was one aspect of your work that uh when we drove in and we and I showed up, you were doing something. You were sitting with some young men in the afternoon. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Oh yeah. Yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah, so this is the third class I've had. Um maybe just to give a little bit of background. This area has a it's in the 90 some percent unemployment. So when you're in an impoverished area and the unemployment's so high, the morale is low, and you get into a dark tunnel, the people here they they feel like they can never get out of. And so often education is beyond their financial abilities. They they can't get beyond most of the time seventh grade because even high school you have to pay for here. So since I've been here, I've wanted to do this, but this year I actually, this is the third class I've done on entrepreneurship, uh, Christian entrepreneurship, especially, and what I developed a course that goes through just basically what the Bible teaches about entrepreneurship and the principles of business and tithing and all sorts of aspects, and then it goes into some training on on how to start a small business. So the goal is, you know, one of the pillars of our mission is building a self-supporting church. You want to teach young men and women uh to be entrepreneurs, to to be creative, to to not just rely on someone else to hire them, but to be job creators and um thinking the big buzzword in the class is thinking outside the box. And so we really want people to think creatively because God is creative. God is creative and um he invests and he wants a return on his investment. So we're trying to encourage these young men and women to invest wisely when they're young and uh be vital um supports of the local church.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

And what are some of the gifts that uh God has given them that they can employ in entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Well, it's interesting. In the end of the class, we uh actually do a business plan. So they need to think of some kind of business they want to start. And I give them a list of questions: how are you gonna do this, this, this, and this? And uh, you know, one of the points in the class is uh how are you gonna do it for for God's glory and not just for your own selfish gain. And so we've come up with being a food supplier to doing grain to doing pharmacies to uh having people with a salon for hair cutting, and so yeah, just a variety. We had uh in the second class, we had quite a few of the medical staff, uh maybe six or seven of the medical staff attended that class, and obviously they have a little more money to to be thinking creatively, and uh that was interesting in that class, even uh building some shops and renting shops out, and so we'll see what the Lord does over time. I I was really excited about it. We had the first two classes we had close to 20 people in each class, and then the last class here we just have five. But it's it's something I really love to do, and I see where it's uh the the students are uh excited about it. Uh it it gives them hope, um, not just in their own abilities, but but hope in the gospel, hope in in God that that has given them these gifts to develop. So that's what we're trying to encourage.

SPEAKER_01 28:02

What do you what do you think are some of the strengths of the Karma John people as as a as a people group, as a community that that we can actually learn from them?

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Well, I I think probably the biggest one is generosity. I really think they look at us as being selfish. And it is because they will use all of their money and resources to help an uncle with a medical need. They'll they'll spend their selves in the poverty. And you know, we can sit back and and judge that and say, well, you know, you gotta think about eating tomorrow. But on the flip side of that is how much generosity is there. Yeah, how much selflessness is there. And so I think generosity is a huge one. I think uh these people are very resilient in going through hardships that we can learn from. They have a lot of hard, hard things in life that they endure that we don't even come close to. And uh I really, I really think that that's one aspect. Uh Joyce has put me to shame time and time again, lifting her eyes to Christ in much, much more difficult situations than than I face. That's been very encouraging, but at the same time belittling to me and my we little faith.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

So it's good. So some of our listeners may have heard about a farm project. What is what is that, uh, Mark?

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Yeah, so I'm a farmer with a little F. I don't really know a whole lot about it. I've worked on a farm before and I have a little bit of knowledge about it, but we've used a farm project basically planting uh anywhere from one to 15 acres, and we I have kind of used it more as a relational building tool where I can get to know people, we can hire people, we can grow a little bit. It usually comes close to paying for itself, um, so it really doesn't cost the mission hardly any money, usually, and so it's been a relationship building tool, but we have also last year we got in some guys to do some classes on on farming and on uh soil nutrition, crop rotation, things like that, um, just as a help for the people in the community. But um, as far as um being big food producers, it has not been that, but uh it has given me a relationship into a lot of different people's lives that usually come back later on when someone is in trouble, uh, you have a relationship with them and they'll come to see you. So it just gets your foot in the door with relationships and that in that aspect's been really helpful.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Last question, Mark. What would you tell deacons in the US and Canada as well who may be thinking about something like you're doing? Do you tell those who never maybe those who never even thought about it?

SPEAKER_00 31:20

Yeah, I mean uh like I said, you know, we talked about doing short-term missions. You can come and get your feet wet and see what it's like. And but I can say that there's different passages that you may have read before, but then when you come to the mission field, they really, really stick out to you, and one of those is that the harvest is plentiful and the workers are few. Um this is diaconal work on steroids here, and there's a great, great need, and there's not enough workers. And that's not just here, but it's all over Africa. There's a lot of a lot of work that can be done. Uh, there is a ripe harvest, and uh so so I would encourage anyone that is remotely thinking about it to to possibly come and visit and uh get your feet wet and see the need. There is a great need.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Well, thank you, Mark. This has been a very uh helpful interview. So good to hear more about your work. So thankful that you're here with your family. Been here for four years. I know you have uh a furlough coming up, and I trust and pray that the Lord will bless you in that, give you rest you need, yeah, and uh bring you back refreshed again to continue serving in Jesus' name.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Yeah. Well, thank you for having me, and uh thank you for visiting, and we uh look forward to seeing uh hopefully a lot of these guys when we come home and visit some churches. All right. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Thanks for joining us. Go to our website, reformdeacon.org. There you will find all our episodes, program notes, and other helpful resources. And please make plans to join us again next month for another episode of the Reformed Deacon Podcast.