Deacon Policies and Procedures Discussion

Doug Vos 0:00

Every church should have a policy for weddings and building use .

David Nakhla 0:05

Welcome to the Reformed Deacon , a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed Deacons . There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone , so let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another . We're so glad you could join us . Let's jump into our next episode . My name is David Noggle and I serve as the administrator for the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries . Thanks for coming back to listen to part two of the Real World Cases , policies and Procedures episode .

David Nakhla 0:36

Our group of four-season deacons Bob Keyes , Doug Voss , Lynne Hunter and John Voss continue considering two more scenarios . Let's get right back into the last two scenarios . You're one of the two busy deacons in a smaller OPC . Your church recently started growing , has just begun to consider candidates for church office . It's welcome news , since your work life has gotten busier .

David Nakhla 1:01

One man being considered for the diaconate , though , has you a bit concerned . Sam's a nice guy , but you'd notice he can sometimes be a little rough around the edges , shall we say . He doesn't seem to initiate conversations or approach newcomers , and you'd notice he can be somewhat abrupt with his family , his wife and his children . He's in church most Sundays . You believe from conversations you've had with him that he loves the Lord has a good grasp of scripture , but wonder about his people skills . An older woman in the church shared with you her apprehensiveness about Sam , which only seemed to elevate your concerns . After he's been examined by the session , you've learned that Sam has been confirmed to be put before the congregation . Should you express your concerns or trust the session knows best .

John Voss 1:54

Too late . The session's confirmed him already .

David Nakhla 1:58

Well , he hasn't been elected yet .

John Voss 2:00

He hasn't been elected yet . I think the elders , while they are the rulers of the church , the elders should be seeking input as well from the deacons . That's my opinion and it is practice at our church . There is a practice before a nomination is confirmed shall we call it or whatever the deacons will be consulted . Now , then again , we also do things a little different , where we're like the model that we came from , where the elders and deacons meet once a month together . You have a council meeting , the elders meet one night , the deacons meet the same night , but they're separate , and then two weeks later you discuss your businesses with each other as much as possible concerning the elders , but the deacons then discuss their business with the elders at that meeting . And that point , that's when we have consultation . We'll just say input . I'll also say this we've never rejected anybody , but I do think it's important that there be some input , because these people have to work together , and just the more input you can get , I think the better off you are .

David Nakhla 3:19

Next John Others .

Bob Keys 3:22

This is the most important topic we have . This topic is about the Church of Jesus Christ . It represents the Church and to me , it's the most important thing that we do . We have had numbers of issues in our church regarding men that were not qualified because of their lives , what they did and how they did it , and we suffered , and the world saw . We suffered from making unwise decisions .

Bob Keys 3:59

We didn't know the men , the deacons and the elders that we put in office , and I'm not going to go into stories , that isn't the right time , but I can tell you we must guard the office of elder deacon . These are offices of leadership and I believe we need discipleship , men's discipleship groups that disciple men before we even start the process of interviewing them and going over theology . We need to know these men thoroughly , inside and out . I mean going to their houses , bringing them to our house , walking side by side with them , getting to know them deeply , before we allow them even to think about becoming elders and deacons , because we have seen the effects of not doing it . And I've talked to my pastors recently pleading with them to be wise , think carefully and let's do discipleship before we even start classes to teach men theology . It's a lot more than theology .

Bob Keys 5:08

You can see this man here has issues with his wife and children . You can see the rough edges . We have members that see it as well . If you put it up for a vote , they'll vote amen because they don't know . Our job as leaders is to protect the office of elder and deacon . They're important offices , they're important offices , they're high offices . They got to be guarded and we are the ones to guard them . You can decide different ways of doing it , but we've got to do it better than we have .

David Nakhla 5:36

Thank you , Bob .

Lynne Hunter 5:37

So I'll jump in from my experience and I think I'm not saying that we have it 100% right , but I think we have a system at Harvest that helps with this . All our men in leadership positions have to go through leadership training class led by one of our elders , and it doesn't matter if you're elder or deacon , you still have to take the exact same class . So that's first point . The second thing is is depending on what office they are going to go in , they end up in a internship program one year before they're even brought to the congregation . So they get go to leadership training , then they get , they have interview with the session , then they end up in as an intern either of the elders or the deacons and the deacon interns . They come to the meetings just like any other deacon . They're allowed to speak at the meetings just like any other deacon .

Lynne Hunter 6:41

We will take them out for visiting on certain cases . So we see them perform for a year and a couple of times they weeded themselves out , realized no , this is not for me . Other times we've gone back to the session and said this person needs more training in this . We have two interns right now that ask can we intern for another year . One had just gotten married and has a child and he wants to see how it's going to work with the family before he jumps into this full-time all the time . So even in a small church , one or two deacons , I would suggest that you come up with training and time for testing before we go put a person to the congregation .

David Nakhla 7:32

Yeah , let a man be tested before he serves , isn't that ? It sounds like a biblical concept .

John Voss 7:38

Yep , john . So when they're interning , how involved do they end up being when you're considering a case or cases ? Because they're not yet ordained , but they're going to be hearing information . You know private personal information . Are they allowed in on that ?

Lynne Hunter 7:58

Yep , they're allowed in on it . We have a deacon's meeting tonight where there will be a father at that deacon's meeting that is going to be talking about some personal things . Those interns will be in that meeting but they are told , you know , when they come on board they're told that this is the rules that we abide by .

Building Use Policies and Procedures

Lynne Hunter 8:17

You know , they get the same treatment as everybody else and most of the times the younger ones , the ones that just started out , kind of sit there and just listen , don't say anything . The younger ones , the ones that just started out , kind of sit there and just listen , don't say anything . And then you can see as they mature in their internship they get a little bit more bold to speak .

John Voss 8:32

Oh , okay , it's a good concept actually .

Bob Keys 8:34

We do that . We have an internship , we do similar things as you do , but what my concern is is that if you aren't walking side by side with a man , you don't know him Right , and I am really saying you've got to know , really know these men before you allow them to take the office , because we have been burned and it's hurt , it's hurt our congregation and hurt our witness . I like what you're doing , but I think you can still get full . You really have to know these men and we did not know some of the other men that we've had up for office before . Really know them , and I think you need a couple of deacons and elders really listening carefully to their family and to them and watching them Every step . You've got to know them . I've learned this out of 40 years . You've got to know the men that are going up for leadership . If you don't know them , the church will be hurt .

Lynne Hunter 9:31

Bob , this is pointed at you but anybody can jump in . Does your church practice church visitation , and do you do it with an elder and a deacon or just the elders ?

Bob Keys 9:42

We haven't had as much visitation as we needed , but I am starting this month , in two weeks , to visit with my elder . I have a new elder . He's been a deacon for 10 years Now . He's a he's an elder and we're going to do a visitation on a regular basis to all the people in our care , our shepherding group , and I can't wait , I can't wait . This is going to give me an opportunity to to encourage our congregants , to use their gifts , to encourage them the gifts I know and begin to know what kind of situations we have in terms of men that would be good deacons and elders in our church as well . So working together with an elder , I think , is critical and so important in the shepherding and care in a congregation .

David Nakhla 10:29

Other thoughts . Anybody else got any thoughts on this . Do you guys think that you should speak to Sam about these concerns ? Do you think that would be fruitful ?

Doug Vos 10:39

I think you should have a private conversation with Sam and talk to him about his people skills understanding . He has a good grasp of scripture . I would appeal to him with scripture , come armed and ready with a number of scripture passages that talk about the fruit of the spirit , talk about correcting and gentleness . Try and work it through with them . I mean , you might even find that you are serving with another deacon that sometimes has a short fuse right and he's already in the diaconate . That happens from time to time .

Doug Vos 11:13

You'll find that you're in a church Not all the deacons and elders are always going to see eye to eye about everything , so it's how to have healthy discussions together without getting angry at each other , right .

Doug Vos 11:29

So it may work out for Sam , but I mean , if he's not ready , like I'm so glad to hear about the churches that have internships we talked about that a bit in our congregation with the next group of deacons that we're bringing in is have the classroom instruction , go through all the theology , talk through some case studies , watch some old videos from deacon summits , listen to some reformed deacon podcasts and then do an internship , and the whole time working through , does this deacon exhibit the fruit of the Spirit If they don't . One of the notes here is just talking about do they have people skills ? It looks like they don't have people skills . Work through that with people , brother , we know you know scripture , but let's work on some gentleness and kindness and love . And how do we exhibit that to our families and to our people ? It's something to keep working on for everybody , I think .

David Nakhla 12:25

More could be said , but let's keep rolling to our last scenario . You're about to lock up the building , Sunday afternoon . You're the only one around . Which of you does that describe the last guy around ? That's us , that's my family . We're usually the last ones around .

David Nakhla 12:43

Just as you're about to head out , two women walk through the door . They greet you in a friendly , normal manner . After a quick greeting and a little bit of an awkward pause , one of the girls say that we have a question for you . We love your building . We want to host a wedding here . Do you allow outsiders to have their wedding here ?

David Nakhla 13:01

In a friendly manner , you say yeah , at times we have allowed non-members to host a wedding here . It's not something we do all the time , but sure we'd consider it . Do you know when you're thinking ? She says the dates are flexible and would like to do it next summer , which is almost a year away , but that date will be chosen based on the availability of the building . You say great , we have a couple of deacons that handle this . She gets a huge smile on her face , turns to the other girl and says honey , we found our wedding place . You're now worried that if you say no , there will be a lawsuit . All right , brothers , what do you do ? Are there policies your church ought to have or has in place to aid you ? Maybe you could describe what those are .

John Voss 13:42

We have a policy , and I think every church , especially in this day and age , needs to have specific policy about this . Obviously , if you're a member of the church member in good standing then of course the answer would be yes , except in this case because of the two women . We have upon occasion allowed non-covenant OPC members or people to be married in our church , but only from other Reformed denominations that the OPC has relations with . So we've had a PCA couple . We've had members of other OPC congregations that have been . You know , you're more than welcome , but If you don't have that policy , you're walking .

John Voss 14:34

This is a walking invitation to confront the other side of the world but also find out what can happen when you aren't prepared properly .

John Voss 14:49

And the deacons need to take a step up in this too , as well as the elders , of course . But the deacons need to be some of these guys that need to be involved in this too , as well as the elders , of course . But the deacons need to be some of these guys that need to be involved in this . This is in our church anyways . It was a deacon matter of setting up these policies as far as use of the building , because in our church , the deacons are not just benevolence but also in finances , and we'll call it the capital of the church , of the congregation . And so , yeah , we've got . We set policies up like this just in anticipation of this kind of stuff . Maybe you wouldn't have done this 40 , 50 years ago , but today you've got to be prepared for it . And as far as getting out of this , once they said that he would say , well , we still have to get this approved by the elders of the church and then at that point now you can take them down a notch , prepare them for a possible rejection .

Doug Vos 15:57

Others . Yeah , I would just reiterate , really , what John said is every church should have a policy for weddings and building use , so hosting all kinds of things dinners , dances , weddings . People are going to ask if you've got a nice fellowship hall that's got a lot of space and people want to use it for a family reunion , whatever . It should all go through a review and one person shouldn't commit , just like in some of the other scenarios we talked about today . It's not a good idea to for one person to promise anything you know , say , okay , let's check on that for you .

Doug Vos 16:32

maybe there's an online form for them to fill out , like a Google form or something , to fill out their name , address , phone number , why they want to use it . Of course , this girl , kind of like snuck up on them , surprised them with this , so that's a very difficult situation , but that's why you need a policy in place in the first place .

David Nakhla 16:55

You need to have a policy in place and your deacons need to know about the policy .

John Voss 17:00

Yeah , the deacon or deacons need to be prepared to give that answer . That's right , almost automatically . That's right we can consider .

Bob Keys 17:10

Bob , I think wording is always so important in our policies . We need a lot of wisdom on exactly how to do it so that we have flexibility but that we eliminate the possible things for our protection . Planning a policy for protection is what I PPP . Planning a policy for protection that doesn't mean we have to stick with everything . Protection , that doesn't mean we have to stick with everything . I like the idea of being able to move out in certain cases , but it's got to be worded so that we restrict and protect our churches from lawsuits and the world pointing their finger at the church . And so wording is important and I encourage us to think about how we word it so that we do it right is important , and I encourage us to think about how we word it so that we do it right .

David Nakhla 18:00

We heard what John's church's policy is . If you know what your church's , policy is .

Bob Keys 18:05

Would you guys mind sharing ? It , I think ours is we only have members for weddings . And again I think we have room to maneuver that a little bit . But we make it clear we don't want to have any issues and we make it very clear members in good standing and so again , but we we can move around it , but in general we just don't want any problems .

Bob Keys 18:25

And so we have clear , clear wording that we can show anyone that wants to see it . This is our normal policy , that we normally use , and this is how we , how we run .

David Nakhla 18:36

Yep . Thank you , L ynne .

Lynne Hunter 18:38

We have a policy we do allow our building to be used by outside people . In this situation , myself , or the other two or three people that would be the last ones in the building , would know that our response would be you will have to call the secretary on Tuesday morning to get the forms that will have to be filled out , and the building committee will review it at the appropriate time . Yep .

David Nakhla 19:11

Good . Well , thank you , brothers , for being here today . This has been super helpful , lots of good insight . Thank you for your service to the church over your years and even in this way , and we just hope that our fellow deacons will find this discussion helpful and encouraging as they labor for their congregations in Christ's name and for the deacons listening today . Is there a diaconal situation you'd like to have discussed on the Reformed deacon ? Maybe you're struggling with a particular circumstance at your church that you might like a few seasoned deacons to help with . We hope to record an episode soon where we take audience questions , after removing names and identifiable details , of course . Send your questions to mail M-A-I-L at thereformedeacon . org . Mail at thereformedeacon . org . Thank you , brothers .

Bob Keys 20:06

Thank you .

David Nakhla 20:08

Thanks for joining us . Go to our website , thereformeddeacon . org . There you will find all our episodes , program notes, and other helpful resources , and please make plans to join us again next month for another episode of the Reformed Deacon Podcast .