Carl Miller: 0:00

For those to come who know what to do right at the beginning, with the checklist, with knowing inventory we never thought of oh yeah, you need to take an inventory of things and then also being able to rally resources.

David Nakhla: 0:18

Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed deacons. There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone, so let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another. We're so glad you could join us. Let's jump into our next episode. Hi, my name is David Nakhla. I serve the OPC as the Administrator for the Committee on Diaconal Ministries and in that capacity I've also been serving as the disaster response coordinator for the OPC for the last decade and a half. This role is particularly relevant in today's episode because we plan to talk about practical ways deacons can be helpful in responding to disaster situations that have affected your church. Local deacons. As you listen to this episode, I want you to know that, as part of a connected church, you do not have to be on your own as you go through these deep waters. There are ways you can get additional help from your Presbyterian, the denomination, and we'll add a link to a helpful graphic which explains the five steps in response to a disaster. You can find that in our show notes.

David Nakhla: 1:29

So, to help us as we think about this topic, we thought we'd talk today to three people who have had firsthand suffering and involvement with disasters. Carl Miller is now the pastor at Heritage OPC, new Braunfels, texas. Carl's home was flooded with several feet of water after Hurricane Harvey dumped as much as 50 inches of rain on Houston in 2017. Ron Elwell is an elder at New Hope OPC in Bridgeton, new Jersey. He and his family suffered the complete loss of their home and its contents in 2006. We do thank the Lord that no one was hurt, but they did lose everything. We'll be hearing from Ron in a few minutes and Mike Cloy, an elder at Landis OPC in Marion, north Carolina, and a member of the Presbytery of the Southeast Diaconal Committee. Mike played a critical role in the restoration of Neon Reformed OPC when it was flooded with six feet of water following intense rains in eastern Kentucky. He has years of disaster response experience in the military and the OPC, often relies on Mike and is very thankful for his expertise.

David Nakhla: 2:29

So we're thankful, brothers, for your willingness to share from your personal experience to help us to better prepare for such crises and to perhaps gain some practical tips. I'm sure you'd agree that having a church family to lean on in the aftermath of a disaster is not only helpful but a comfort, reminding you that you're not alone. So thank you for joining us. To start off with things I'd like to hear from each of you about your experience. Maybe take a few minutes to share your story. What happened, your initial responses physically, emotionally if you're comfortable with that and through that disaster that you faced, faced, and how long did it take till your life was quote unquote back to normal? Yeah, we can start with you, carl, if you're willing.

Carl Miller: 3:12

Sure, yeah, so my family was affected by Hurricane Harvey in 2017. And 17. And many know that Hurricane Harvey was they call it kind of a one in a thousand year storm, as often what it's referred to. As you know, houston and Houstonians are very familiar with hurricanes, so it's not really that we don't know how to handle them, but Harvey definitely had some very unique behavior that caused a lot more damage than others, and so we were watching Harvey and all of the predicted paths and all of that as it approached, and a large part of the problem was just the speed of which that storm came, and it was very slow and also it kind of hooked around and then came back for a second pass. And so for us, the challenge and the hardship was not really the rain, although there was a lot of rain and that definitely devastated parts of Houston.

Carl Miller: 4:23

Houston's kind of known to be the concrete jungle, and so there's not a lot of, you know, grass and ground and land to absorb water. You know much these days as more construction goes on, so a lot of places northeast Houston flooded tremendously very quickly, some areas in the south also, but where we were in the northwest, our impact was not so much rain in our neighborhood, but it was the after effects of that. So all the rain that came from up north and hit up north then came downstream through creeks and whatnot and it just overwhelmed those creeks. And so our home was six blocks away from the creek that we backed up to, but it blew, the banks, pushed in, it hit our house and soaked it about three feet up the walls and we have a two-story home. We weren't thinking it was going to get that high, but it did, and it pushed six blocks beyond our house too. So it was a lot of water and as it hit and came in right before the really devastating parts and where it was really flooding in came in, the Nashville Guard came through the neighborhood and said you know you need to leave, it's going to get worse, you know it's time to go. We're thankful that my sister and her family live about five minutes down the road in a different neighborhood, but they had high ground and so the water didn't affect them, so we were safe there, but we did have to evacuate the home. It was an odd thing to see people literally boating around the streets of our neighborhood on jet skis and other just flat bottom boats trying to get out, get stuff out.

Carl Miller: 6:18

We did make it back into the neighborhood. After a few days of the water being there, they released a dam down south of us which then allowed our area for the water to kind of go downstream and get out of our area. So we got into the house and it was really hard. We anticipated what it was going to be like just in our own thoughts, but actually seeing it was quite different. And you know, for me personally it was one of those things where it's, you know, really putting your faith into action, to where your faith hits the road and you really need to practice, even in your thoughts, what you preach and how you encourage others.

Carl Miller: 7:06

On the one hand, I was trying to be strong for my family. On the other hand, I was like I had a lot of questions. You know, lord, why this is huge A lot of loss of our possessions. We tried to get a lot upstairs, but you know we were only successful to be able to do so much, not the big furniture, and so we lost a lot of things. A lot of things were not only flooded with water that they sat in for days, but also then it was just the air and moisture in the air, molds, concerns. You can't salvage books at that point. I had tons of books in my library, you can't, you know. There were other things like that. So it was a lot of prayer but it was a lot of and a lot of sorrow, but I was thankful to the Lord for the resolve that he gave Stacey and I and the kids, because it was also a time to be a good witness and a testimony of his grace and to really trust him in this, and so I did a series of live streams, like throughout the whole event and just kind of sharing our experience day by day and different things that we were going through and all of that.

Carl Miller: 8:22

When we got in and we were able to get back to the house that same day, our deacons were already deployed and they were coming to meet us and so one of our deacons met us there actually two of them, but before that, even by a day or a half a day. It was really just such a wonderful thing. There was a man who was retired military showed up at our door and he said hey, my name is Rick. I know you don't know me from Adam, but my name is Rick and I'm here to help and I was like, well, thank you, lord, okay. And so he's like, well, so what do we need to do? And he had some experience, you know, helping with disaster relief in the past and but he had traveled out of state, from out of state to come down. He had heard about the, the storm, and actually he made some brief contact with David and David sent him on and but it was just a such a blessing because he I mean we were trying to get our thoughts together and figure out what we were trying to do and what we should do first we weren't entirely sure kind of fumbling, and he was like, all right, well, let's start getting stuff out, let's take an inventory. And I mean he really kind of helped organize us even for that brief time before our diaconate arrived and so anyhow. So that was just a tremendous blessing. And then he stayed for weeks to help eventually help do some site coordination with our house and stuff.

Carl Miller: 9:56

But deacons came, church came, a lot of the members of the church helped muck out the house, the bottom floor, take it down to the studs, and then David and other members of the disaster relief eventually came in, did assessments, mark Sumter was there, and so just a great time of help in the initial phases. But then we had over 150, I think we counted people from all over the OTC and other NAPARC denominations that sent teams over the next months to come in and help put us back together again, and a lot of them had different expertises carpenters, electricians, all sorts of people. It was great. It was fantastic. That was a great blessing to see the broader church come and minister to our family and really helped us get back together again in a way in which we could then sell the house or have it be available for sale as I was going to be moving on to other aspects of ministry that then led to me coming here to New Braunfels eventually. So yeah, it was a tremendous blessing there. That was really so many rays of light and sunshine and what was otherwise darkness and confusion and sadness and the loss.

Carl Miller: 11:20

One other quick thing, and that is that it was a great opportunity to minister to the community too. So a lot of people were going around and ministering to neighbors, reaching out to other neighborhoods. Our presbytery ended up calling a man to serve as an evangelist to areas considering the broad impact of Hurricane Harvey, and so he served for two years in that capacity. So that was a fantastic opportunity to also share the gospel of Hurricane Harvey, and so he served for two years in that capacity. So that was a fantastic opportunity to also share the gospel. Neighbors coming to help neighbors, people setting up their barbecue pits and whatnot at the corner cooking up hot dogs and getting people resources to where they needed to, and so even within the neighborhood. So those aspects of recovery as things got into swing and I mean it was there was just blessing after blessing that we received, but then also we had the great opportunity of being able to to be a blessing to other people. We're very thankful for that.

David Nakhla: 12:22

I remember those early days there. First time I met you, Carl. I actually remember when I worshiped with you guys that week. You were serving as an elder there at Cornerstone and I think you gave the congregational prayer and your testimony to God's sovereignty and care and your reliance on that was very meaningful to me. Ron, yours is a little different story. Yeah, Would you mind sharing with us what?

Ron Elwell: 12:50

the Elwells went through. Yeah, in some ways I'm like disaster relief and you know, knowing the different places, you know, like what happened in the Houston area and there were guys from our church that went down and helped, you know, for some time. You know, a couple of our deacons went down and helped out for a few weeks, I guess, and came back with some wonderful stories about traveling through traffic in Houston and everything. And then, although we heard about Neon Kentucky, our situation's not, you know, in the midst of a sort of a regional disaster or even a neighborhood disaster. It was just our individual home. It was a Wednesday night. We were at church. We lingered and then headed home and we're pulling in the driveway and my daughter exclaims dad, it's foggy. Well, there had been no fog anywhere else and I'm looking at the color and it was like gee, that's not fog. And we pull in and there's smoke everywhere, run to the front door, open the door and smoke to the ground. We had dogs in a back room so I immediately ran around and we'll open that door. And they came out. We were happy to see that, noticed that there was a little fire stuff, did not really notice anything going on. But when I finally stepped back and realized that the shingles on the roof of our house were melting, oh my God, and within a couple of short minutes the roof dropped in and there was a column of fire that probably went up a couple of stories. Our house was pretty fully involved. Now, basically the whole second floor burned out and and then burned through and just dropped a lot of stuff into the ground floor. Uh, it was a four alarm fire. There were four different fire companies responded. You know we're in a bit of a rural area, so I've got a driveway that's about 200 feet to get back in.

Ron Elwell: 15:11

The firemen responded wonderfully. They kept running in the house and carrying stuff out and it was like, well, we can't save the house, we're going to save keepsakes. So they were taking pictures off the wall and found, like our wedding album and stuff like that, which you know I mean we lost a lot of things, but just the fact that someone even thought of doing that. And then they they kind of went to town on top of that. So you know the the roof was totally burned out and then the next day it rained. So you know, the roof was totally burned out and then the next day it rained. So between them pouring a lot of water on the building, or what remained of the building, and most of the downstairs was still there, a lot of the upstairs fell into, you know, the first floor and then there was probably over two feet of just really ugly, lousy water in the basement. So we didn't quite burn to the ground, but the end result was they had to tear the house down to the foundation. So we literally lost everything within the house. It was very little that we were able to salvage.

Ron Elwell: 16:22

First of all, we're very thankful for the response to the fire department. Those guys are wonderful, you know. When they came around canvassing for money, they'd oh yeah, we remember that fire. The response of the church was also pretty amazing. So you know, we discovered the fire probably about 8.30, and by 11, 10 or 11 o'clock over a dozen people from the church had gathered. Our associate pastor at the time is now our pastor at New Hope and just several other people arrived and just kind of stood around.

Ron Elwell: 16:59

You're kind of in shock, you don't really know. It's not even a matter of like crying or it's just like what just happened. And I mean, the good news is the believer. It's like this is all in god's timing. This is all. In my view right now. This is pretty bad. This is pretty horrible. Is the insurance going to cover this stuff? You know how do you do this? What do you do? There's a picture somewhere of a standing in a circle and praying and then talking. It's like midnight now.

Ron Elwell: 17:30

Fortunately, my brother-in-law and my in-laws live pretty close by, so we were able to go and stay at our in-laws and then started in that interact with insurance companies and and some of that stuff, providentially, was just crazy. So I feel very fortunate. Our insurance company was really good. We got some good advice from. So you know, dave haney is a member of our church. Dave's quick thinking and well was quick thinking and well experienced and knew what to do and Dave took on the job of. You know, anytime there's a fire, that makes the news and we did have a news helicopter from the Philadelphia TV station overhead. I never noticed it, never saw it. So he knew that there were going to be an independence assurance adjuster showing up in droves, which they did, and he stood at the end of the driveway and just collected business cards from people and said, just okay, which was a big help. It's interesting. I've had a chance to talk to other people that have run into some difficulty and they just didn't know how to handle that. Well, my advice is they provide an important service, but you probably should find out what the insurance you've paid for what they're going to do for you. And as for us, personally I had no complaints with what they did for us to enables to tear down the house, get credit for all the stuff on the inside of the house that we had lost, and then be able to rebuild where we were located. It is a long process, and even to find us a place to live for that year that we were out of the house. So it did take a full year for us to go through the process to clean up, rebuild the house. So you're talking architect, builder, all those things. That can be a real challenge.

Ron Elwell: 19:22

Our kids attended a Christian school. The outpouring of help within the Christian community was just amazing, so it was from our own church, from church friends that we had, from families in the Christian school, and I know there were a lot of people working behind the scenes. I don't know who organized it, but a number of people, once sort of the dust had cleared, helped us pump the water out of the house and then just to start to go through is there anything salvageable? And then parts of the area of the house that didn't burn, but just things got wet. People came in and collected like clothes and dishes and stuff and took it away and cleaned it. One of our elders in the church had a barn and he offered some of the stuff that we thought. Well, we're going to try and hang on to this and see. You know, at the end of the day, is this also going to dump, stir or is this something we're going?

Ron Elwell: 20:19

to try and bring back because we'd like to keep some of it, so we had a place to store stuff that we didn't really have to pay for. So I mean, my experience was, you know, not a situation where, okay, a whole neighborhood's decimated and you have to really, so everybody in your community in that circumstance is in the same boat and nobody can really help each other. Ours was different, because everyone around us was able to come in and really provide help for us. One of the most amazing things was I got a call from the insurance company.

Ron Elwell: 20:52

This woman calls and she's like my job is to arrange housing for you, and do you want us to put a trailer on your property or do you want us to find a rental? And I was like, well, if you put a trail on the property, you won't be able no one will be able to access the property to either tear it down or rebuild it, so that's not going to work. She gives me an address of a home that was a rental in our area that fit our needs, and I'm sitting in my in-law's house. I said, ma'am, the house you just gave me is the house next door to the house I'm sitting in. Wow, which was just like how does that happen? How does that happen? So it left us in a neighborhood that we could check up on things.

Ron Elwell: 21:35

You know not being too fun, it's just you see how the Lord can kind of work through things and it's really kind of devastating and but it's also you know the Lord's in control and you talk to people that are unbelievers and they like weren't you upset? And I was like, well, no, I was in shock. But yeah, you know the Lord will provide and it does give us a wonderful opportunity to witness to the peace that we can have, because it's not our problem, the Lord's problem and the Lord's people do pull together. So I mean I have an appreciation for people that are in those really dire circumstances, like in Houston, like in Neon, like what's going on in Western Carolina now.

David Nakhla: 22:18

You mentioned what David Hayne was doing with all these adjusters showing up. Can you explain that a little bit more to somebody who's never been through that? All these adjusters showing up? Can you explain that a little bit more to somebody who's never been through that? Why are they showing up?

Ron Elwell: 22:30

So independent insurance adjusters. Their job is to represent you to the insurance company, so they can be very helpful. The issue that you have, though, is when you contract with someone, they're going to whatever. Whatever money's earned, they're going to take a percentage of it, and that's, in some ways, that's negotiable, but the minute you do that, it's like you're having a disagreement with someone, and the first thing you do is hire a lawyer, right? So that sets up a scenario where it's an adversarial relationship with your insurance company.

Ron Elwell: 23:10

Now, I talked to people that have used them and found that they needed to use them, because they felt they were having a hard time getting from the insurance company that they had been insured through the help and services and everything that were promised Didn't feel they were delivered, but my advice would be see what your own insurance company is going to do for you, and maybe even ask someone, a third party. Does this look like a good deal? Are they trying to squeeze you? Are they being honest and forthright with you? We were very happy with the company that we worked for, and they ended up reimbursing us for things that we really didn't view as very valuable.

David Nakhla: 23:57

Yeah, that's good.

Ron Elwell: 23:58

Very helpful, Ron and Dave knew that, yeah, so have somebody knowledgeable about financial things and insurance things and you know, and Dave had all of that financial skill set was, uh was of great value.

David Nakhla: 24:11

Yeah, good, thank you, ron. That's great. Mike, do you have a story to share with us?

Mike Cloy: 24:16

Been around a lot of disasters personally tornadoes, 17 moves in my own house and about probably 12 under my dad's house and we've lived in tornadoes and hurricanes and earthquakes and everything. And I got to do a little bit of that as a disaster response coordinator in the Army and seen a lot of destruction, was the defense coordinating officer for the state of South Carolina and North Carolina. I know how the Department of Defense comes along, the governors and stuff and local communities which we recently experienced here in Western North Carolina where I live. We had active duty and the National Guard mobilized in force mainly active duty with their aviation, rotary wing aviation assets to get up in these mountains and these nooks and hollers.

Mike Cloy: 25:03

As Seth would tell us, it's been a sad story. Carl's talking about the water leaving its banks and you never thought it would ever come and a thousand year flood and that's the same thing here. Right, these folks haven't experienced anything like this in a hundred years. People were over a hundred years last time. Things flooded as badly as they did and that was where it came related.

Mike Cloy: 25:27

The thing that resonated with the gentleman in your story was how people came alongside you. To me You're stunned, you're kind of like whoa. It's overwhelming. Where do I begin? How do I even think through this? And you had folks come alongside you who loved you yeah, strangers, you know, and those that deeply love you in the church and what that does is it calms your soul. It's the way the Lord calms your soul, in a way that's hard to understand. They put their arm around you and say they're going to be there with you. I mean the Good Samaritan right. You see, the love of a stranger, someone that probably wouldn't have been accepted by the person he was rendering aid to. So important to know that someone's going to be there with you. That seemed to be a changing moment, a salient point in time, and that's what I think disaster response is about.

David Nakhla: 26:22

I do oftentimes think about when a church experience a disaster in its midst of flooding and that type of thing of that kind of scale.

David Nakhla: 26:35

Yeah, it's oftentimes the first time that they've been through that and that's oftentimes when I go into the situations I assume that they haven't been through that before. And that's where I was thinking about. Yeah, carl and Ron, I mean that means your local deacons haven't probably ministered to that particular situation and they're not necessarily equipped with all the answers and all the strategies and processes. And yet, even as Mike was saying, the fact that their presence, you know they're showing up, they're doing what they can do, knowing that they've got your back, that they're going to be there with you through that is a big part of that. So, as you hone in maybe on it could be the deacons, but the diaconal it's. You know, not necessarily deacons, but the diaconal it's. You know, not necessarily deacons, but the diaconal ministry you received. Are there particular things as you think through the process of recovery? Are there particular things that you found were particularly impactful as the church came alongside you?

Carl Miller: 27:37

brothers and sisters, yeah, I would say that several things come to mind, one of which is kind of the scaled and was caused and the ministry opportunities that were then presented. It was, I think, a learning opportunity for a lot of the disaster relief coordination and all of that type of thing, and so some of the most impactful things were, though, the quick response, right. I mean, when you're dealing with a flood, you're also dealing with water receding, not in a uniform fashion, and so the ability for men to get there and help to arrive sometimes has some delays, just because roads are blocked, trees are down, whatever, and but you know, quick response and also an informed response, right. So somebody knowing not only, like you said, mike earlier, that, yes, it's wonderful to know that people had our backs and we felt the love of the brotherhood brothers and sisters came and, you know, shared the love of Christ with us and with others who were affected, but for those to come, who know what to do right at the beginning, with the checklist, with knowing inventory, we never thought of oh yeah, you need to take an inventory of things and then also being able to rally resources right. When you're hit with a flood, everybody, all the local resources, are sapped up and tapped very quickly. Everybody's tapping out all the major home improvement stores, you know, and so it's all gone very quickly.

Carl Miller: 29:39

And so one of the blessings that I think was very impactful for us is that the men that showed up, especially initially, also had resources from other places in the United States and they were able to make phone calls and they were able to tap into people who could send us resources and bring it in from afar. And then we weren't waiting for the backfill of resources locally through retail providers or otherwise, right, so that was helpful. Also, the disaster reliefs team, their provision and acquisition of dehumidifiers and some important things that we really needed right away to get the water out of the air, you know, as well as deal with the mess that we were sorting through. And then, thirdly, just the I would say, the organization of teams, and so, whether that be locally through our church, our diaconate did a good job of organizing members of our church to come and to you know, take shifts and work on the house and do other things like that. But also the teams and the coordination through the OPC, disaster relief are getting the tools and the things to you know, help put not only the materials and supplies but the tools to use on those materials and supplies to make things happen. That was helpful.

Carl Miller: 31:09

And then just coordinating teams and funds to come in. You know, as time progressed, so realizing that, yeah, it's not just going to happen in two weeks, three weeks, this is going to be months of work, but coordinated and there was a flow, an overlap. So we were never really without a team in the house doing something that was needed in the next step of the process. So I would say that those were some of the things that were the most impactful, you know, maybe a fourth being just the love and care of the body and the broader body, even outside of the OPC, and sending in funds so that other resources could be acquired and even used for broader ministry in the community too. So those are the things that come to mind. How about for you, ron.

Ron Elwell: 32:05

Well, I think again, our experience was a process after the fire, kind of cleaning out, and then the process of rebuilding, and it's after an event like that and really any event. It's a long process and there's different stages where it's really helpful to have knowledgeable people to be able to advise or direct in each aspect of that. So you know, people that understand insurance, people that understand how to muck out, how to clean up, and then we had to find somebody to tear what remained of our house down, got some advice about how to do that. A good Christian friend of mine who's in the insurance industry called up and said I know a builder that focuses on fire restoration. Well, our house wasn't quite fire restoration because it was, but we ended up going with the gentleman because they you know they had a lot of sympathy for our circumstance. So just to be able to get the recommendation from people, whatever their area of expertise, to kind of to set in.

Ron Elwell: 33:23

So deacons can't do everything. Deacons don't know everything, but you know the one thing that you can, you can do as a deacon is to know where to look for resources or who is trying to have a list of where can I go to answer this question, this particular challenge. I mean, I was a deacon for a number of years before I became an elder, so I remember kind of going through that process when there was an emergency like I don't know about this, who do I contact? And you know we would discuss trying to have resources in mind just for those very unusual events. You know it's nice with disaster relief. I know probably got a nice list of people to call on at this point. But it's a very, very necessary component of what deacons can do, because it's not just doing but it's also sort of advising and counseling and encouraging.

David Nakhla: 34:16

Yeah.

Ron Elwell: 34:17

And maybe in some cases, recognizing this is beyond my pay grade. Let's find somebody that you know. To them it's oh yeah, we've done this before, we've got this. That's right To be able to offer that on. Don't have. But it's been interesting to watch the development of what we're able to do at this time. I think it's wonderful.

David Nakhla: 34:47

Two things I would add or reflect on. What you're saying is that nobody expects a disaster to happen to them. It wasn't part of your plan no, for that week or for that day or for that year. But suddenly your day, week, year is totally changed. This is put on top of you, on top of your current living, and so a role that deacons can play is coming alongside and carrying some of that burden.

David Nakhla: 35:12

I mean, you could Google the resources you know type of thing, but they may not be the expert, but they can help find some of those resources. And the other thing is that a lot of times and I just experienced this just this last week as I was visiting the Hallies down in Florida the Hallies are not eager to be home remodelers. That was not in their vision. They're not that type of people. They have no interest in remodeling. Getting to pick their own kitchen cabinets is not exciting to them. They like the cabinets they have because those were the ones that were there. And suddenly somebody who goes through a disaster is thrust into this home remodeler scenario.

Ron Elwell: 35:52

A thousand decisions.

David Nakhla: 35:53

Right that they never chose and would never have chosen, and are also vulnerable to be really taken advantage of by the people at the end of your driveway, as you were mentioning. I think those are things that deacons can keep in mind when somebody goes through this that this is not what they chose, this was not their plan for their life this year, this family, and how do we alleviate some of that burden from them and share in some of that? Mike, do you have anything to add to that?

Mike Cloy: 36:20

There's a couple of things that trigger some thinking. First of all, probably your informed response. Thought is perfect. The simple thing a deacon can do is know the sheep. Know them, and I'm not talking about what car they drive or what job he has, what the sheep to be known as is. Where do they live? How do you get there? Do they have elderly in their home? Do they have small children? Do they have developmentally delayed? What is the picture of that family? Best way to look at it is that we all have family members. We have children, I have grandchildren and I know them. I know them. I know what makes my youngest grandchild tick and I know their tendencies. And I think deacons really need to know that so that they don't necessarily do the work but they can marry up others that are like-minded or similar experiences or have gone through some things that these families have gone through, and they can be united. So they're informed of the sheep because they know the sheep and therefore they can assist the sheep by coordinating, directing, sending resources, those type of things.

Mike Cloy: 37:39

The other I'll give you an example it's gifts and graces. I mean Haney has a gift. He knew the insurance adjusters, like sharks, were going to move in and he needed to be in the middle of it so that you could focus or I'm wrong on what you need to focus on. So that's his gift. He's developed it. He knows it may be firsthand experience, but there are people in the church that have remarkable gifts and graces that we don't even know about. Now in Western North Carolina we're going to build these Chalmers homes. The only reason why these Chalmers homes for the most vulnerable have had their house pushed off its foundation or totally destroyed because of flood and the velocity of water is because we have a general contractor and an engineer in our congregation. That's their gift and so they want to build chalmers homes little 16 by 40. We used to be 12, we're gone 16, now by 40. And they know how to permit. One of them is ability to sign off on engineering plans.

Mike Cloy: 38:47

A deacon needed to know that. A deacon can know that and help them get things done to serve people. So knowing, informed response, and then gifts and graces. And then you get on the ground and you're continuing to know about what happened and then you send that information out. As you said, all of a sudden, resources that were not available locally are coming. Why? Because somebody said we need help, we need these resources not available here. And then they come. That's what the D dart does in the presbytery of the southeast disaster events response team. They give us a picture of reality, then we can forward it to the presbytery and even to david, and david can come and look as well. And we've got all these eyeballs trying to look at the totality of this thing and make an informed response. Good stuff, yeah, it's, it somewhat naturally happens. But what we want to do is make it tighter. Right, make it tighter and you're talking, mike.

David Nakhla: 39:55

It sounds like even in the preparedness realm, right, you're saying the deaconsons know the gifts and graces of your congregation for that time when those things will be needed. When somebody's house burns down. Someone's house is flooded.

Mike Cloy: 40:11

Right Now, ron made a key statement Know your insurance policy. Well. When do we crack the bad boy opens? When we have a disaster? Oh, okay, this is what it's going to cover Reading your insurance policy before they, before you need it, you need it. Right, it's the same thing in the church.

David Nakhla: 40:28

Yeah.

Mike Cloy: 40:29

You get to know what. If something happens here, how are we going to react?

Carl Miller: 40:33

Yeah, I think it's also helpful to consider the whole FEMA situation too, right. Especially, like in our situation, we had to figure that out really fast, okay, so what is FEMA going to do and not going to do, and you know, and all of that, and how does that play into the insurance discussion or into the relief discussion? You know in terms of who's doing what and who's covering what, and so that's also an important piece, I would add.

Mike Cloy: 41:06

I'll give you an example of that. So David shows up with Seth and Troutman and some others and Seth is educating this engineer and general contractor of our church that's going to do some disaster response on how FEMA works and it was like light bulbs going off. Well, now we're living it. So we're learning every day what FEMA will and will not do and how it works. That's information that people need for a reform response. It's a David Haney, it's a Haney anticipation moment, right. So when we know that there's another flood, out there in the Rolodex is a bunch of people in McDowell County or Neon who've got experience with FEMA. Well, they need to be tapped into so that we can learn lessons from those that have gone before us.

David Nakhla: 41:55

So oftentimes in disasters, we also find lots of well-intentioned efforts that are sometimes not so helpful, and the biggest example I can think of is with disaster response. They talk about the disaster after the disaster, which is the piles and piles and piles of clothes Well-meaning, well-intentioned, you know, clothes just sent. Well-intentioned, you know, clothes just sent. And I think I interacted with somebody from Salvation Army and they said that of the donations they receive, I think it's only about 20% are really useful for being sold in their shops or used, and I think we experienced that. So that's just an example of the well-intentioned response to disaster response. That's always not so helpful, but maybe you guys can interact a little bit more personally. Maybe you can just give some guidance to deacons Like what are some things that maybe they could avoid doing that, whether it occurred to you or maybe you saw it with someone else, that was not being the most helpful thing.

Mike Cloy: 42:57

Let me give a mosaic of a disaster when it comes to material, and this is that you can read. When helping hurts, they'll play it out nicely in that book, but our hearts hurt. We see something happens. We want to help, so we push stuff to people thinking that you know, they're wet, they need towels, okay, or they're cold, they need a jacket, and it's well-intentioned. And they want to do something fast to alleviate because their heart hurts for the people that are suffering. Okay, that's, that's natural. Natural it, but it's gotta be controlled. And that's where the informed response comes in and goes this is what we need.

Mike Cloy: 43:36

And you pull that stuff into the disaster. You don't push it, because when you push it, it's got to have a place to be. You know it may not be what you want, and now it's eating up space. And then you talk about pilfering black market. You talk it's a mess. So I'll give you an example. We got people building sheds for people in the mountains because it is now cold, and we got snow on the ground and we got county officials evicting them from the very shed that somebody with a good heart built so that they can stay out of the weather, but it has no ventilation in it. Next thing, you know, they got a heater in there and people are gonna die, right, because they have no means to breathe. When they're sleeping at night, they're taking in these fumes, are gonna to wake up dead, right, right. So that is unwise. That's a perfect example. We're putting people at risk because we're our hearts hurt. We don't want them to be cold.

Carl Miller: 44:28

You know we're going to actually hurt them, maybe harm them I think some things for us that could be helpful and I don't know if it really falls within the deacons specific, because the deacons are local, know the area, et cetera but maybe more broadly to the disaster relief ministry is that sometimes you do have people who are coming in and have certain either gifts, or they're given certain tasks when they arrive to cover, and so they think, well, this will be sufficient for the need or take care of the need. But there may be local or regional, even environmental things that the residents know but that people outside the area don't. So, for example, one of the things for us was that there was a wonderful intention to you know, because of how everything happened, there had to be some re-leveling and re-sloping of our yards to help with drainage and because water was coming to the house, and so they were working with that, and then, after the skid steer and everything got through, it's time to try to put some grass back into place. That wasn't just dirt Right, and so they were looking at the seed, throwing seed on the ground.

Carl Miller: 45:51

Well, in Houston that doesn't work. Well, it's going to just be patchy. You really have to lay sod Right, and so that was one of the things that I would say was good intention, but it it just. It needed to be sodded instead of seeded, and so you know. So some I guess that would fall under the category of just some of the decisions. It would be good to not assume what would be good to get what you want back in there, but also consult the local residents to make sure that you understand what works and what doesn't work with the environment or with the ground or other things like that.

David Nakhla: 46:32

So oh, that's a great example. You can even push that into the local church, Like there's a difference between one family and the next right. What may work great in my home may not work great in the Miller home. So let's really find out what's going to be best for the Millers. Let's not assume that we know what's best or even impose, do more asking of questions than directing.

Ron Elwell: 46:55

What I think you need versus what you think you need Right right, right, right, versus what you think you need.

David Nakhla: 47:01

Right, right, right, right. Yeah, I also think. Actually, carl, I think in your home we had some demo crews, if I remember right, demo crews go a little bit hog wild and actually began to just I don't remember the details, we don't get into the details but maybe dismantle a little bit beyond what you know was needed to be dismantled and actually were creating more damage and, again, well-intentioned, but moving faster than they knew what was right. So sure, mike, do you want to talk a little bit more, as we even move towards a close, about encouraging proactive preparations that deacons can do?

Mike Cloy: 47:37

And to me that's the prep phase. The preparations before the storm are most critical and I've done some videos on set that are hung on the opc disaster response web page it's, I think, opc disaster responseorg. You can find all that there's. A bunch of other folks have done similar stuff that's been captured. Tricious made sure it's available to everybody and, but yeah, it to me. It's always problematic when people think when a storm hits, your point of reference is going to be familiar to you. In other words, the street that I turn on is going to be there to get to their house. Well, and maybe underwater, like car, like.

Mike Cloy: 48:20

Carl said getting there. But what's the workaround? Maybe who has a boat, right? Well, now you're trying to find a boat or ski to wherever those things were, Carl, they're running up and down the street like it's a river or a lake, but it's always important, I think, for the deacons to find helpers. Helpers, and ron said it, deacons can't do everything, but there's got to be a army of helpers.

Mike Cloy: 48:51

That army, I didn't say navy or marine corps of helpers, this is a army of helpers who are attuned to the deacon as to what's important, and they go out and survey and get to know with the deacon, the families of the church, yeah, and nothing else. There's this communication. Who's in the house and this has got to be updated. So I mean, this is not one time thing, right? Yeah, like once a year, you renew your insurance, your car insurance, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah. I think that's the key and there's a whole list of things you can do on the webpage.

David Nakhla: 49:29

That'll help you. That's good, Brothers. Is there more that you, anything else that we didn't cover that you'd like to include in this conversation before we bring this plane in for a landing?

Mike Cloy: 49:44

Let me give you a lesson learned that I have not experienced. I think maybe Mike Kelly and Neon, as a site coordinator, experienced it. I mean, he could run for mayor of Neon right now if he wanted to. But Mike was successful because he invited and kept the community, the local leaders and various committees informed what was going on. So we created trust and partnerships and here in the Western North Carolina, mcdowell County, we have an emergency management center. That's done a ton of work. And then we got this guy named Jerry Lewis. He's a pastor. He's not who you think he is from days past. He's not that funny. No, he's got one of this Grace Community Church.

David Nakhla: 50:26

It's a pastor, he's not who you think he is, from days past.

Mike Cloy: 50:27

He's not that funny. No, he's got one of these grace community churches big church. They love God and they are involved in the community. And he was sensing that there's all these other churches that are out there. Like us, an OPC church wanted to do something. He got us all to the table. It was remarkable. Everybody wanted to do Baptist on Mission, a bunch of others. We're in a room together and then all of a sudden they produce a list of 300 homes. They're either red tag or yellow tag. Red tag destroyed Can't go back in. Yellow tag you can go back in once they get repaired. That's an informed response. Right Now we are all going. I got all these over here and we're marrying up responsibilities. So one thing I've learned so far out of the disaster Western North Carolina is somebody else knows something.

Mike Cloy: 51:19

You can get everybody that knows something in a room together. It's a especially if it's Christian focused governmental, governmental agency emergency management. We actually have the county planner in the room with us In the church, in the church right and we're all talking about how can we help these families and where are the gaps and where are the seams, and we do that every Wednesday. And as a pastor of a very large church in the community felt the need to get people to start talking to each other, and he did it.

David Nakhla: 51:57

So wherever you can do that, yeah, yeah, wow, that's really great, that's great.

Carl Miller: 52:06

Yeah.

David Nakhla: 52:07

Well, brothers, it's really good to be with you. Thank you for willing to open your hearts and your minds to what you experienced and again, I know that probably brings back lots of difficult memories, but hopefully even encouraging memories, as you think about the ministry of the church to you and, ultimately, Christ people being Christ's hands and feet. I would encourage everybody who's hearing this that OPC Disaster Response is always looking for more volunteers. You can register as a disaster response volunteer on our website, opcdisasterresponseorg. There's other resources there. We seek to stand ready to serve when needs arise and M&A Disaster Response. Our PCA brothers and sisters were mentioned in this as well and we've got a great relationship with them. We really love working with them and we've had so many people come to us through Reformed Mission Services, our brothers in the URCNA. I think they've sent so many volunteers to us, especially to. Carl. Miller knows lots of those people because they came and worked in his house.

David Nakhla: 53:14

Maybe even more of them served in your home than OPC people which is a great fraternal blessing for us to serve together. You can keep updated on our efforts on Disaster Response website and our Facebook page. Mike, did you want to say anything more about what's going on in Southeast North Carolina?

Mike Cloy: 53:35

Yeah, things are coming to a starting point with these Chalmers songs. Again, we are serving the most vulnerable that have no home and they have very little funds no family in most cases that can come alongside them. Really tight emphasis on word and mercy. So we're ministering mercy but we're trying really hard to reach people with the word to the point that once their home's built they're going to have a picture of the church that helped them land as Orthodox Presbyterian Church and, to be reminded, they'll have host families assigned to them so that they can pray for them. Get them to church. Wherever church they go to, we'll get them to it. If they're not church, we'll give them a church to go to them regularly. As there's 16 by 40 homes being built by the organization of our general contractor, our site coordinator, our hospitality coordinator and our volunteer coordinator with people throughout the country. We've already had folks from Joe Where's Joe from? I can't remember. Is it Indiana, illinois, and then even down in Georgia. A bunch of other general contractors have called us up and said give me a house, I'll build it. I mean, we got two calls today Give me a house, I'll build it. So we're excited. We think at the beginning, somewhere about mid-January we'll start putting our first house up. We've finally got all the permittings done and some of the material ready to go. It's taken a little while to go through the process, but, yep, we're really excited about it.

Mike Cloy: 55:09

We did learn of one family that is just terribly impacted and their story within themselves. Maybe something I can do for you, trish, to write up this particular family. They almost lost their lives. Their house was hit by a mudslide, took about 24 hours to get dug out and then put in his head. And then, when they got rescued by air two hours later, another mudslide totally wiped the house off the face of the earth. So rescued, and now we're coming alongside them to build 60 year old people no, no family, nothing to help them. So we're going to help them. I'll tell you more about them later, but just keep us in prayers as we get moving. Take our first step, january, when the volunteers show and we start going vertical with lumber.

David Nakhla: 55:58

So exciting to be able to be part of that. We welcome you to join those efforts. We will also be having an effort begin in Florida to rebuild the house of our pastor down there whose house was flooded, so stay tuned for those on our websites and Facebook pages, Instagram, etc. I wanted to say my thanks to our producer, Trish Dugan, who does such a fantastic job in pulling all of this together and producing these episodes. Ron, Carl and Mike thank each of you for joining us today and we'll see you on the next episode of the Reformed Deacon Podcast. I hope you enjoyed today's discussion and were able to garner some insights from those experiences.

David Nakhla: 56:39

Regarding disaster response, before we end this episode, I wanted to make you aware that we have a list of resources on our website, compiled over the years and based on our experiences, as well as from outside sources we thought are helpful in disaster preparedness. You can find the list of resources by going to opcdisasterresponse. org and looking for the resources tab in the menu. We hope you'll consider it a starting point in disaster preparation for your church. Thanks for joining us. Go to our website, thereformdeacon. org. There you will find all our episodes, program notes and other helpful resources, and please make plans to join us again next month for another episode of the Reform Deacon Podcast.