Speaker 1 0:00

And I remember one time having a conversation with him . I don't remember the circumstances , but I remember what he said . He said when people are grieving , you need to give them a wide berth . Everybody responds differently and , as I have found out , it's a long , long process .

Speaker 2 0:17

Welcome to the Reformed Deacon , a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed deacons . There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone , so let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another . We're so glad you could join us . Let's jump into our next episode .

Speaker 3 0:37

Hello , my name is Tim Hopper . I'm a deacon at Shiloh OPC in Raleigh , north Carolina , and a member of the Committee on Diaconal Ministries . Today on the podcast , we're talking about an aspect that's close to the heart of diaconal work caring for widows . Scripture is clear God's people are to look after the widow . To help us explore this topic , I'm joined by Becky Haney , a member of New Hope OPC in Bridgeton , new Jersey . Becky's husband , some may know , dave Haney , served as the director of finance for the OPC for nearly 36 years before his sudden passing in August of 2019 .

Speaker 3 1:10

Dave was known and loved by pastors , elders , deacons and church members across the denomination for his wisdom , discernment and deep care of others . He was also a valued member of the Committee on Diaconal Ministries , where he played a key role in establishing the now very active OPC Disaster Response , a ministry that has brought help and hope in Christ to many . In the wake of disaster , dave and Becky have three adult children and eight grandchildren . Becky has graciously agreed to share some of her personal experience since Dave's passing to give deacons , pastors , elders and church members a better understanding as they come alongside widows with compassion and care . While every widow's experience is unique , we thought it would be helpful to begin with one widow's perspective and plan to explore this topic in further episodes . Becky , thank you for joining us today . Would you mind starting by telling us a bit about your family and your late husband , dave ?

Speaker 1 2:03

Sure , and first off , I love to hear his name . That's the first thing I can tell you that any widow is going to want to hear is their husband's name , as many times as you want to say it . As you mentioned , Dave worked for the Orthodox Presbyterian Church and one of his hats that he wore was he managed the loan fund which helps churches either buy a building , renovate a building . So he traveled a lot . For that he had to make site visits , and on this particular occasion he was in New Berlin , Wisconsin . They were working on a I think it was a renovation to their property , and so he was out there for the weekend . He had met with them on Saturday night and he was supposed to also then be at church with them on Sunday morning , and he had gone to the hotel fitness center in the morning and , apparently in the process of working out , had a massive heart attack . We don't know how long he was down , but it became clear that his brain had been not receiving oxygen for a long time , so he was transported to a hospital in Wisconsin .

Speaker 1 3:03

I was prepping at home to go to church and I got a call First . The phone rang . I didn't recognize the number and so I didn't answer it . But then it rang again and it seemed odd on a Sunday morning and it was the hospital calling me . So I was quickly on a plane , I was getting in touch with my kids and they also all got on planes to come , because we were told he was very ill . They didn't really specify , so we were all there together and after several days it became clear that he had no brain activity and so we had to remove the ventilator . So Friday he died in the evening .

Speaker 1 3:37

And in the midst of all of this we had a couple of other side notes . My oldest daughter , Lauren , was pregnant and due with a baby in a couple of weeks . She had decided to make the trip because she was coming to a hospital and , in the Lord's Providence , the trauma caused her labor to come on . So she had her fourth baby two days before her dad died in the same hospital . So that added to the disorientation .

Speaker 1 4:03

And then , several weeks later , as we were prepping for the service for Dave back on the East Coast , my father had a brain bleed and he was in the hospital a couple of days before he passed away . I could not go to be with him because we were shortly having Dave's memorial service . So in a word , it was a nightmare and very disorienting . Dave was only 56 . He had no history of heart disease in the family . But another plug for deacons just as men , take care of your health , get yourself checked out . I know you guys don't like to go to the doctor , but go and get checkups , but anyway , yes it was . I think my friend heard me many times say you know it used to be I'd wake up from a nightmare . Now I wake up to the nightmare .

Speaker 3 4:47

Yeah , that's so hard . Were there particular things or people or way people interacted with you in the early days that were particularly helpful or comfort to you ?

Speaker 1 4:58

Well , since we were all in Wisconsin , we flew back to California , where all my kids lived at the time , and we actually even buried Dave in California because we had been planning to move there . So , of course , being all together was crucial . But in addition to that , even while we were in Wisconsin , the people at home were in touch with me . I know Dave's got a car at the airport . You drove . You know it was Sunday morning . I couldn't get a ride to the airport , so I just drove myself and parked People just give us the information to get your cars .

Speaker 1 5:29

And then when I came home , friends had straightened up the house and filled the refrigerator with groceries and flowers and I'm bringing you dinner tomorrow . And you know , they just did it . They didn't ask , they just did it . I wouldn't have been able to say what I needed . I was in such a fog and my kids had the same thing . They had somebody come to pick us up at the airport and he said I feel like I'm coming to pick up soldiers coming back from a war and it's like , yeah , you hit the nail on the head . That's how we feel , and the fact that he said that and acknowledged just the trauma that we went through and they came again home to meals and help . So those first few days of people just doing and not asking was incredibly helpful .

Speaker 3 6:14

It seems like that's a common theme , probably especially with widows , of just feeling paralyzed and not knowing what to do .

Speaker 1 6:21

I also said to my friend often I felt like I was underwater , like everything was muffled , like everything was moving slowly and heartbreak is real . Your heart hurts , you feel nauseous , you can't imagine that you need to get up every day still . So you do need people to just do and not ask , the first few days at least .

Speaker 3 6:45

That's helpful If you're able to share any things that were not helpful that happened that you would encourage folks not to do .

Speaker 1 6:51

Yeah , this is challenging because I wouldn't say don't do this . But this surprised me how difficult it was to receive sympathy cards , because I was in such disbelief that I was in this position to receive them . I had spent years buying cards for other people and then I know people meant well , but they would say things like praise the Lord , that he's in heaven , or give me a scripture verse . And again I wouldn't say don't do that . But I will tell you for me I looked at those very casually and set them aside , and it wasn't until a few months later that I really could read them and get the comfort from them . So in some ways I would say don't feel like you need to find words to put in the card , just say I'm so , so sorry , and that's all we really need to know .

Speaker 1 7:42

In those first few days . It's almost not comforting or for me it wasn't to have some of those things said to me , and so it almost made it worse For me too . I think emails were good where people had a specific thing they wanted to say a memory of Dave or something like that . That was really helpful . But , like I said , I wouldn't tell people not to send cards because then I think you'd also feel like nobody's thinking of you . But just know that you don't have to come up with words . You just have to say we're thinking of you or I'm so sorry .

Speaker 3 8:30

I think a corollary to that is to remember that the grieving goes on . Once the funeral's done and the flowers stop showing up and the visitors stop coming , the grieving continues . And to be thinking out into that longer term . What's it like four months from now when people aren't sending cards ? Then how can you be an encouragement ?

Speaker 1 8:50

I'll tell you , though . The amazing thing is , we have one woman in our church . She's known for sending cards . She sent me a card every week for , I think , two months , and that was really something . So , yeah , mixed message there , but I know I've always had a challenge of what do I say in the card ? Just , we're so sorry .

Speaker 3 9:10

Were there any particularly notable maybe not right in the early days , but as your grieving continued any particularly notable books or sermons or conversations that stick out to you ?

Speaker 1 9:21

Yeah , again , I had a lot of people even send me some books that had been helpful to them and I couldn't open them . I just couldn't believe this was my life . But a couple months later I had been recommended a book by Jerry Stitzer called A Grace Disguised , and it was about a man who had lost his mother , his wife and a young daughter in an accident . Lost his mother , his wife and a young daughter in an accident , and I suddenly discovered how desperately I wanted to hear the words of somebody who understood what I was going through . And so that book was a real lifeline and also kind of like it pointed me to what was next , what I needed to do . Next I needed to find people who were experiencing what I was . So I also found a woman whose husband had died in a hiking accident the month before Dave . So we were literally exactly at the same point , and she wrote a book called Beyond the Darkness , which was probably my second most helpful book in those moments .

Speaker 1 10:20

And then I've always loved CS Lewis , we always loved CS Lewis , but it was fascinating to read his book A Grief Observed and to find I had something in common with this highly intelligent intellectual . We went through the same emotion of just floundering and we can't believe what our life has become . And then there was a lot of praise music . That was incredibly helpful . I think that's different for everybody . I know my mother-in-law . When she lost her husband , hymns were such a comfort to her , but there's no question that books and sermons . There was a church in Michigan doing a series on Job and so I was able , with the beauty of the internet , to listen to their sermons while I would go on walks . There's a lot out there if you look for it .

Speaker 3 11:06

That's very good . I know you had maybe even other book recommendations , but one that we've recently talked about in the CDM is Nancy Guthrie's book what Grieving People Wish People Knew , or something to that effect . Is that one you've read ?

Speaker 1 11:17

I have read a lot of Nancy Guthrie . I haven't read that one . I do have a devotional I'm currently using called Book of Hope , which is excellent . And then I forgot to mention one of the women in the church had given me a Spurgeons Besides Still Waters devotional . It was updated by Roy Clark but again , yeah , you need to hear God's truth all day long . So I had devotions for the morning , devotions at night and all about grief because that was I was all consumed by it . So everything I read was relative to that . But yes , nancy Guthrie is an excellent author .

Speaker 3 11:53

Are you able to talk about some of the harder parts of widowhood that people might not see or understand if they haven't experienced this type of loss ?

Speaker 1 12:00

As I said about the cards , I think we all feel badly that we don't know what to say to somebody , but the truth is there is nothing to be said in the first few weeks other than I'm so sorry . Nothing can change it , nothing can make it feel better , nothing can make it make sense when you're a Christian and you have you know the foundation of your faith and you have you know the foundation of your faith . I will say , though , that one of the hardest questions that people would ask would be how are you doing no-transcript ? So you're not going to always say I'm doing awful , so you find a way to say well , I'm okay , or you know day by day , and it was hard to see people almost have a little bit of a look of relief in their eyes Like it's yeah , you're doing better . I'm glad to hear that that made it worse , because it was not true , I was not doing better at all . So the interaction with people was very , very difficult for a very long time , because it just seems , again , surreal that life still goes on when your world has imploded . The challenge I have , too , is that that goes on for years , and that's something that nobody can really do anything about . You just have to gradually get used to the fact that when you go into a public situation you're going to be around couples all the time and again , that's not anything that people can change .

Speaker 1 13:28

I did not experience the well . Once you're not a couple anymore , your couple friends drop you . I didn't have that . But again I had a couple times where I had a few people over and it just didn't feel right because Dave wasn't there to help me host or whatever . So I decided I'm not going to do that .

Speaker 1 13:45

For a long time I tried to kind of just keep doing the same things I was used to doing , but then that almost underlined more that he was gone . And oddly enough , in God's providence , covid came about six to seven months after he passed away . And that was the best thing for me because I could access all these online resources but not have to speak to people in person . So I think a lot of people will say weren't you just so lonely ? But often I was lonelier with people because it was a constant reminder of what I didn't have anymore . I know other people feel differently . I know some people are lonely and just . My father had a terrible time without my mother , and he wanted to be around people and wanted to go to a grief support group , you know , but that wasn't for me . I was more about the books that I could read on my own .

Speaker 1 14:41

The lifeline for me , though , was I had one friend who , after several months , we were all out for breakfast and I had kind of crumbled at breakfast and I knew they all felt badly for me , but they didn't know what to do . But we ended up all going home , and about 20 minutes later I got a knock at the door and she's standing at the door and she said I just couldn't let you go home , and she sat in my living room like Job . She just sat because I and she listened , and she's been doing it ever since . We get together every week Again . Covid was a fascinating thing for me , because it opened up a very different world where I could get together with one person , and she walked this walk and listened , and I would never have known the relationship I have with her if I hadn't lost Dave . So I'm sure that's not why I lost Dave , but it's a silver lining .

Speaker 3 15:35

Sure , absolutely . You're thinking particularly deacons to widows , think men maybe often are going to , if they're thinking about it , maybe be even more afraid to say the wrong thing , which can lead to an opposite and probably worse problem of just avoiding the person when you don't know what to say . What counsel would you offer to a deacon in particular who feels unsure what to say ?

Speaker 1 15:55

Yeah , well , again , I followed a lot of different people online and read books and so forth and I , in God's providence , just read this last week . A guy was saying it is so hard when people say , how are you doing ? And I think that has to be the opener , because it's almost like saying , hi , how are you ? In general , that's just what we do to start a conversation with people . But I think the answer is the follow-up question , especially for a deacon , can be what was the hardest thing you had to deal with this week , because you've now acknowledged that their life is hard , so we can tell you what was hard and we don't have to feel like we're a downer because you asked the question . So I thought that was brilliant because it's true , the only question you really have is how are you doing ?

Speaker 1 16:45

And so by following up that way and then , as the people did when Dave first died , after a couple of months , occasionally I would just get somebody who was coming over anyway for something . He'd bring his toolbox and say what do you need fixed ? You know ? So I had a front door that wasn't latching right , just a couple of things . They're not a big deal , but the fact that I didn't have to ask , I didn't have to call somebody , he just came prepared to do it . I had that happen three separate times and it was just . It was beautiful to watch because I didn't feel like it was inconveniencing him . He came and he just came prepared .

Speaker 3 17:25

That's great , I know often the experience can be just being so overwhelmed with how many things need to be figured out and all the checklists just keep growing and growing of what does life look like at this point and how are you figuring out life insurance and what bills do we pay that my husband used to take care of and all these things . And helping keep things off that list I know can be such an encouragement .

Speaker 1 17:48

Yeah .

Speaker 3 17:48

Yeah , which actually brings me to a follow-up , which is it can be too open-ended to say let me know if I can help , to where it just becomes . You don't even know where to start . I think this is true not just with widows , but I think young parents hear this often Let me know how I can help . We're like , well , the list is very long , but what can you actually ask for ? Are there better ways to try to find out besides just showing up and doing something ? Are there other ways to try ?

Speaker 3 18:14

to find out how to help .

Speaker 1 18:16

Well , that was another thing that I kind of learned through the process is I'm already naturally independent and don't like to ask for help . And then Dave was an elder , so I also had an understanding of how often church officers have to be out of the home doing things for other people . So I really really didn't like to ask for help . But it got me thinking what if deacons and I don't know how you would do this graciously , but had some sort of a checklist that just said do you need help with any of these things ? So that and I can even help you think of those ? Do you need help moving something heavy ? Do you need help hanging something on the wall ? Do you need help finding a trustworthy repairman ? Like that's hard too .

Speaker 1 19:05

If your husband handled all the repair work and you have an appliance , go . Do you know who to call ? Do you need help with your taxes or finances ? Do you need somewhere to go on a holiday ? Do you need a ride to the airport ? Like I got about 15 things on a list here . I feel like for me that would have been really neat to receive this piece of paper that said let us know , here's things we can do for you . Let us know and then we'll give you a call . That way , in some ways , I think , it gives the deacons a chance to figure out who might be available . It gives the widow the chance to say , oh yeah , I do . I would love for somebody to hang that for me . And again , it was so challenging for me to ask for help . But if it was proactive , that way , with a specific list , not what can we do , but here are some ideas . Do you need any of these things ? We can add that to the book list at the end if we want .

Speaker 3 19:56

I think that would be great to share . That's a very good idea , if we want . I think that would be great to share . That's a very good idea . What was the experience of handling such a terrible grief with adult children ? That's going to make this a different circumstance than someone who has children at home or various things . How was walking alongside them through this and what did you learn through that ?

Speaker 1 20:13

I would have to say in retrospect I'm really disappointed with myself , but also I felt I had nothing to give my adult children . I was so blindsided and so overwhelmed . And my kids are very capable kids . As we mentioned , my one daughter had her fourth child in the hospital . She had three other children at home and she had an infant and we were all there together a lot . God was so gracious to us because I had no strength for my children and I don't know how women who have to raise young children do it , but they had good . I just remember family coming and bringing food and then just sitting . There was nothing to say , Just came and sat . And how do people do this without a Christian community ? The church is a beautiful , beautiful thing in this .

Speaker 3 21:12

Yes , amen , it's hard to fathom .

Speaker 1 21:16

It's way worse than you think . You think it's going to be terrible and it's so far beyond that it's in some ways indescribable . And a lot of that is because life goes on . I read a quote one time . It's like I'm already dead inside and yet I'm in the worst kind of pain . All of those things at once , and you still need to take care of your house and buy groceries and pay bills , and it doesn't seem like there's any reason to .

Speaker 3 21:42

I've heard multiple times and this may or may not have been your experience , but that Sundays for Christians who've lost a spouse or a child can be one of the hardest days . Even though you then get to be with your Christian family and be under the means of grace , among other things , you are there without your husband , who is an elder and involved in that church . What are the challenges and the blessings there , and are there particular ways the deacons can , or maybe even the deacon's wife and family , support you in being at church on a Sunday ?

Speaker 1 22:12

Yeah , I went back to church right away because it just didn't seem to make sense to sit at home . I'd been at home all week anyway , but I will say I did not enjoy it . For a long time . We sat kind of a little ways up towards the front and I just continued to sit in the same pew and felt like everyone was looking at me . I felt like the eyes were all behind me looking , but again , I felt like I just need to keep doing this until it gets better .

Speaker 1 22:40

The first few weeks , I made a beeline out . I didn't want to talk to anybody , and I think that's one of those things that is okay to let widows do . Don't feel like I need to quit , catch up and talk to her . She's making a beeline out . It's because she really doesn't want to talk . I did think too , though , if there's somebody who's not making a beeline out and it's how are you doing ? What is your hardest thing for this week ? But I'll say how was worship for you today , because there were many times where the sermon or the hymns were a blessing to me , even though it was the waterworks , but it was what I needed to hear in that moment . That would have been something we could talk about . I don't have to say how I personally am doing , but what just be my experience just now in worship . And again I was blessed .

Speaker 1 23:32

The same friend who has come to sit with me . Her husband is a deacon in our church and in God's providence we would sit in the same pew . And this guy had a sixth sense about if I was crying . I mean , the tears would just roll but I'd try not to even wipe them because I didn't want anybody to see . But he knew , and you know , halfway through it'd just be a hand on my back , that's all . But it was very powerful .

Speaker 1 24:03

And he's the same deacon who , for you , you know and that was that , was Dave's job he was supposed to take care of me at public events like that and he just saw that and did it for me and that just made my day . So even those little things standing next to him and hearing his male voice sing it would make me cry . But it was also comforting because I didn't have that in my life anymore . I didn't have a male voice in the house anymore . So it's little things that you wouldn't think of that can kind of trigger both ways . So over time with those little bits of encouragement , acknowledgement of it without you know . We don't have to talk about it , we can just acknowledge and honestly , it's going on six years . I now sit in front of them and we had a song on Sunday . That was tough and towards the end he just put his hand on my shoulder .

Speaker 3 25:15

That's good . I don't mean in any of these questions to imply that any of this is not present tense . I realize all of this is still going on . Do you have any encouragements or advice that deacons and sessions can use to help just encourage a widow in the church to continue to serve and to use her gifts and not to just pull away ?

Speaker 1 25:40

pull away . Yeah , this was probably the most challenging as I looked over some of these questions , because , again , being independent and kind of wanting to steer my own ship , I don't like it if people suggest I do things I want it to be my idea to do . But the challenge is every widow's different , every person's different . So I think , as I said before , just be aware that that's the challenge too . I don't know how long , in the first several months , first several years , there is a very different feeling about life and just doing what you were used to doing doesn't make you feel better , acknowledging that it takes longer than you think for somebody to feel like they can do the normal things again . So that doesn't mean don't suggest or ask them to do things , but I would also say , give them the liberty to say no for a while .

Speaker 1 26:33

Because one of the things I didn't anticipate was the anxiety . I was never an anxious person . I didn't anticipate was the anxiety . I was never an anxious person . But here , you know , something happens so unexpected that you now feel like any project I take on , what if something goes wrong ? And in some ways that doesn't make sense because they're not life and death , but it brings on this anxiety and planning things for other people and if it doesn't go well . So for me at least , I needed a while before I could kind of come back in and help and have a responsibility , that I needed to be somewhere at a certain time and talk to people and be responsible for it , because my anxiety told me something's going to go wrong . There's also , especially in the first good year or two , there's really a lack of desire to do anything and you can push through it sometimes , but other times you just can't . You just got to sit on the couch and stare . Yeah , bottom line , I guess encourage but also accept the no , at least for a little while .

Speaker 3 27:39

That's very helpful . The no , at least for a little while . If that's okay , that's very helpful . Has this changed how you interact with others who are grieving , or maybe had friends become widows since this ? Certainly that's a leading question , because the answer has to be yes .

Speaker 1 27:50

Yeah . Well , again , to make everybody feel better , just because you've gone through it doesn't mean you suddenly have the right things to say . So I think probably what I've learned is to look and to be very slow to speak , Because my friend learned I had a lot to say when she'd come over . I think the first year every Friday night I did 90% of the talking . You know , I just needed that . So I've learned you don't have to have the right words , you have to have the patience to let them start talking and even then just keep asking more questions . Don't give an answer . Just keep asking questions that help flesh out the details , because that stuff all needs to just come out .

Speaker 3 28:37

Yeah , I think there's also a Christian grace for all of us to learn of being able to hear the wrong thing said with the right intentions and appreciate that .

Speaker 3 28:45

I remember I was a deacon when I was single , before I ever met my wife , and I think , in being single and wanting to be married to people who say all kinds of things to you and learning then to recognize the good intentions and good motives , but I think , as any of us think , towards grieving one day , as much as you're able to prepare yourself , that people aren't going to say the right things . A lot of people are going to say the wrong things who love you very much . You can , by grace , appreciate that We've talked about some books and now there's this podcast that will be available , but do you have any other suggestions for deacons and elders and pastors about preparing for caring for a widow and , I think , as we are hearing here , not just doing things but also being able to listen and support and encourage ?

Speaker 1 29:34

Early on . I think you would probably want to at least confirm that she has family support , because those first few weeks and months that's who you gravitate towards if you have a healthy family . And then if you don't and she didn't manage her finances , fortunately , in our situation I managed our day-to-day finances , so I was already aware of a lot of that stuff . But there was a woman in our church whose husband died and she was terrified . She knew nothing . So I think that's probably the most important thing right off the bat is what do you need help with in these immediate days that you feel you can't handle and you don't have family help ? Because there is a lot to do . It's unbelievable how much there is to do and it's overwhelming .

Speaker 3 30:23

Yeah , even you know , we've at our church helped folks that didn't really have family plan funerals , and even that is so overwhelming and can be so complicated . But I think Dave Ramsey , maybe , and some other websites have basically checklists of what you need to do in these early days and you know , getting a will figured out and all these different things .

Speaker 3 30:45

I really encourage a deacon to try to get your hands on that and , if appropriate , and the person is willing to go through that with them and figure out what ways you can help with that .

Speaker 1 30:55

Well , and I will add , practically speaking , that a couple of things I learned . You kind of think , oh , I should wrap things up here kind of quickly because he's gone , but don't turn off his cell phone right away , because often when you sign into a website you need that secondary confirmation and they text you a number and if you don't have his phone active you don't have that .

Speaker 3 31:18

That's very good practical advice for this day .

Speaker 1 31:21

And don't close accounts right away , because you may receive a check that's written to just him , and I had an account that had both our names on it for quite a while . There was no need to take his name off . My name was on it . So I guess in a sense preparing and it's one of the things that Dave used to do a financial planning seminar . But you know things like people should have accounts in both your names so that if one passes away it's not a hassle . All the titles you own should be in both your names . Make it as easy for yourself as possible to not have to deal with these additional roadblocks . The only reason I had to do probate because of our situation was because Dave had one car and only his name . Everything else we had jointly , so that makes a lot of difference .

Speaker 3 32:13

Yes , and having a will is huge .

Speaker 3 32:15

I had to help a widow whose husband didn't have a will and can make things very complicated , and we really encourage families , especially husbands , to do that .

Speaker 3 32:23

I think that's a prudent thing for deacons to be involved with One to start with themselves and make sure they have things in order , but also to encourage their church to do that . Dave wrote a booklet for the OPC at some point called If I Should Die , which I think is still available . We can share the link , which is now available in PDF form , but that would be wise things for deacons to go through and think about for themselves and then think about how to encourage their congregations . This is something I would love to hear for deacons listening to this just generally , how you get the word out about financial preparedness and especially these long-term plannings , but also just general , you know , helping people have their affairs in order , something I personally , as a deacon , have tried to figure out and would be a great topic for the CDM , this podcast , to explore in the future . But Dave was a great example for that , besides this one car which he let you down on .

Speaker 1 33:17

It was now my son's car , so that worked out .

Speaker 3 33:22

Is there anything else you'd like to add to help deacons as they minister to you and to other widows ?

Speaker 1 33:29

Dave's strength . One of his strengths he had many was he had a real compassion for people and a lot of patience , things that don't come naturally to me . I'm definitely more impatient , more you know . Why can't they figure that out on their own ? Why do they need your help , etc . And I remember one time having a conversation with him . I don't remember the circumstances but I remember what he said . He said when people are grieving , you need to give them a wide berth .

Speaker 1 34:00

Everybody responds differently and , as I have found out , it's a long , long process . You know your question about helping another widow . I almost fear that that somebody would ask me how it would be because I would not have good news . I remember reading at the beginning some booklet about widows and how it said something about it . Takes some widows like two years before they feel like themselves and I thought two years that feel like themselves and I thought two years that sounds like forever . Unfortunately , I'd have to say it's more like five or five and a half , like I feel like I kind of just turned the corner a few months ago of feeling like myself , like not everything that happens makes me think that Dave's not here , and that doesn't mean I don't miss him every bit as much . But it's very long , very nonlinear process . You have good days . You have days where you think you've turned the corner and then you're blindsided . My daughter just said yesterday they were on a vacation and she was not expecting the fact that being on vacation with her young children reminded her of being on vacation with her parents , and then she was watching people have their grandparents with them and how she won't have her dad to help out with that . So just the knowledge that it changes a person permanently , you don't go through something terrible and then come out on the other side the same person . Hopefully you are closer to God in a different way .

Speaker 1 35:37

You know , for me the hardest that I wrestled with was the concept that God created marriage . God said it was good . God said it wasn't good for a man to be alone . God said and the two became one . And so for years I wrestled with you put me in this position , god . You made me one with somebody , and now I feel like I've been ripped in half . So that's not going to change . That's going to be the rest of my life . I'm half of what I was . We were married when we were 20 , so we became adults together . But I've also read grief is love with no place to go . I mean , the beauty is that you had somebody you loved so much that you grieved this much , and there's an odd comfort in that , a realization that God gave us a great blessing , gave me a beautiful family as a result , and we talk about Him all the time .

Speaker 3 36:27

Yeah , I think this is a particular opportunity for deacons , especially the deacons who knew Dave and walked through this with you at the time , to both keep the memory alive but also know the grief when your face in a lot of ways stops showing it after some time . And you probably knew people show up at your church that have only known you as a widow and it's you know . They can certainly love you and encourage you but it's not going to be the same . But I think the deacons who've walked through that with you and pastors and elders , it's a particular calling and duty and also a joy to be in there for the long haul and know that that never is just going to go away entirely .

Speaker 1 37:07

As I said at the beginning , I love hearing his name . Our pastor preached a sermon on Sunday where he referred to an instance with Dave and , you know , said his name from the pulpit and it just felt like a balm to my soul just to hear his name said and his memory brought back . So yeah , don't be afraid that talking about the person will make the widow sadder . It actually will make them sadder .

Speaker 3 37:33

Yeah , I think that's a great note to end on . Thank you very much for sharing your experiences with us , and I am sure these insights will be useful to deacons as they seek to care for the widows in their own congregations , both those grieving now and those they'll be called to walk alongside in the future . So thank you all for listening and thank you , becky , for your time . Thank you .

Speaker 2 37:58

Thanks for joining us . Go to our website thereformedeaconorg . There you will find all our episodes , program notes and other helpful resources , and please make plans to join us again for another episode of the Reformed Deacon Podcast .