Five Years Of The Podcast

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi, this is Trish Dugan. I serve as the Communications Coordinator for the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries. I have the privilege of serving the CDM and producing this podcast. And while it's hard to believe, this month the Reformed Deacon is celebrating five years and 90 episodes. We hope the podcast has been an encouragement to you and your fellow deacons. If you are new to the podcast, let me just highlight a few of the more popular episodes you may want to check out, like Meet Deacon Tim Hopper. That was our first episode. Others like helping those affected by dementia, church safety in the 21st century, helping those struggling with mental health, and ministering to the widow are in the top five. We really hope you've been encouraged over this five years, and we hope you'll continue to listen. We have a long list of topics we hope to cover in the years to come. If you have a suggestion for an episode or feedback about one of the episodes you've heard, we'd love to hear from you. Just drop an email to mail at the reformdeacon.org. Thanks for listening. By God's grace and strength, we plan to bring you many more years of the Reformed Deacon podcast.

SPEAKER_10 1:04

I think come to a realization is you're relying on yourself to do something. And that's my barometer for why I'm either weary or frustrated or angry at the situation, is because I got to do something and it's going to be hard for me to do it. That sort of indicates to me that I'm trying to do it on my own power and not resting on Christ and

Summit Audio And How To Share

SPEAKER_10 1:25

his power.

David Nakhla 1:25

This is David Knockley here with the OPC Committee on Diaconal Ministries. Today's episode is part of a series of special episodes of the Reformed Deacon Podcast. These episodes consist of audio from the sessions presented at our fifth OPC National Diaconal Summit held in June 2026. It's our hope that you deacons who were not able to attend the summit, or those of you who missed one of the many wonderful workshops offered will benefit from this content that I think you will find to be very practical and encouraging. If you find this episode particularly encouraging, please consider sharing it with your fellow deacons. And if it's an episode that is especially suited to the work of your particular diaconate, you could consider watching the video version of the presentation together with your fellow deacons and discussing it. All of our videos can be found at opccdm.org. And now enjoy this episode of the Reformed Deacon Podcast.

Introducing The Deacon Panel

David Nakhla 2:22

So this next uh plenary is a little uh something we're trying new this year. Uh, this will be a bit of a panel discussion with some deacons, and it's my privilege to introduce these brothers to you. It was during the recording of one of the recent Reformed Deacon podcast episodes that I learned that Chris Cashin was a deacon for decades before becoming a minister. I knew he had been a deacon in the past, but I did not realize that length of time. And yet it comes as no surprise to me. I've had the opportunity to stay in the Cash's home when they were serving refugees in Clarkston, Georgia. I wasn't the only one in their home at the time. In their service there, they were hosting an asylum-seeking family who spoke nothing but French, and they did that for about a year in their own home. Uh, Chris and Grace Ann became pretty good at communicating with sign language and charades, as you can imagine. Chris is a man who will give you the shirt off his back. Chris is a man who's willing to spend and be spent for the sake of Christ. It's a blessing to have Chris host this panel discussion, modeled after the content that was part of one of the Reformed Deacon podcast episodes that aired in the past years. So thank you, Chris, for serving in this special way. In addition, if I may, we've asked three deacons to serve on this panel. I met Len Richards in 2012 when we hosted the first. Actually, you guys can come up here. Why don't you guys come up? You make your way up. I met Len Richards uh in 2012 when we hosted the first Presbyterian Diaconal Summit. Since then, he's been a continual source of encouragement to me. Uh, let me tell you a quick story of when Len hosted his first deacon's conference for his presbytery. He wore a collared shirt, collar shirt that had a very prominent bleach mark on the front of it. He's smiling, he's exactly where I'm going. He told me that he wore this stained shirt on purpose. He did not want the other deacons attending to think he had it all put together. He knew that deacons aren't the savior. They merely serve to point hurting people to the savior. And Len has left an indelible mark on my heart. I love this brother, and I know this seasoned deacon will serve well on this panel. Len Richards here. Next to him is Alexander Pettex. He's a newer deacon, though he's now around has around a decade of service under his belt. Alexander is a humble diligent service servant, very active despite a full and busy young life. He came to mind as an excellent addition to this panel to represent newer deacons, yet with enough years' experience to have thoughts on the matters presented. And Alexander is a member of Providence OPC in Scottsdale, Arizona. Uh Lynn Richards is at uh New Life OPC in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, Central PA, Southern California, Presbytery. And then finally, Rich Dugan. Rich Dugan has a famous last name. He's known in our circles as who? Trish's husband. Actually, Rich is one of the reasons why Trish serves the CDM and ultimately you so well. Deacon Rich causes Trish to be a deacon's wife. And you all know too well the importance of a deacon's wife. I'm sh let's hear it for Deacon's Wives. No. No. I know that all of your wives are a huge asset to you and a big part of your work in serving the men, women, and children of our congregations. I first got to know Rich and Trish when I began working for the OPC in 2010. We worshiped together in the same church in New Jersey for the first five months. Rich is a faithful deacon, now having served in more than one congregation. As with most of you, much of Rich's work is done behind the scenes. And I'm so thankful that Rich has agreed to serve on this panel. So let's hear it for our panel and Chris Cashin.

What Is Christ Doing In You

Chris Cashen 7:17

Thank you, David. Uh, there's no book. Uh there's no right answer. But what is the Lord Jesus Christ doing in your heart as you deacon or as you minister mercy? As we go through this presentation or this panel discussion this afternoon, I'd like you to be asking yourselves that question. What is Christ doing in my heart as I minister mercy? Usually we're thinking, what is he doing in their heart? But I want you to be thinking about your heart this afternoon. Brothers, we want to dig into the heart of a deacon. We could certainly consider the ecclesiastical qualifications set forth in 1 Timothy, and that would be a good discussion. But in one sense, we're going to go a little deeper. We want to know experientially what goes on in the heart of a deacon as he ministers mercy to the saints and beyond the saints. How does a deacon deal in his heart with a lack of faith, with a challenging need for mercy, with disappointment, when the mercy given is not well received. And then if we can get to it, I'm hoping we can how a deacon's heart is encouraged. It's our hope that this will not merely be edifying, you'll not be merely be listening to these men and their experiences and their hearts as they pour them out before you, but that this will be encouraging as you minister mercy to the people of God. We'll touch upon those four topics, or at least we'll try to if the Lord wills. Faith tested, compassion challenged, discouragement presented, and encouragement supplied. We've got about 45 minutes. We might stretch that a little bit as they answer these questions, and then you'll have an opportunity to ask them questions yourselves.

Faith Tested Through Forgiveness

Chris Cashen 9:34

So, first, our subtopic. Remember to be asking yourself that question: what is Jesus doing in my heart? As we read through the gospel accounts, many times we wonder about the faith of the disciples. It seems that Jesus has established a pattern of testing his disciples that he might get them to see what's going on in their own hearts and the need for a drastic change if they're going to follow him after he ascends. From Luke chapter 17, we read this and he said to his disciples, Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come. It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea, that he should cause one of these little ones to sin. Pay attention to yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him. And if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day and turns to you seven times saying, I repent, you must forgive him. The apostle said to the Lord, increase our faith. Brothers, uh an open question. Is it important for a deacon to pay attention to himself?

SPEAKER_09 10:56

I would answer yes. Um we sometimes we can forget because of the power dynamics when when you're sitting with someone, to forget that you were you were a sinner in need of mercy too. You did not have any merit. Uh you probably had excuses for your sin. Uh, you had reasons why you wanted to keep on doing what you were doing. Um but when you understand the gospel, when you understand what you've been saved from, you you recognize that you need to pay attention to your own faith, your own walk, your own heart. Um because you're you're a fallen man too. Um so when you have someone who you're helping and you seek and desire to share a tangible act of the gospel with them, you are doing so mirroring Christ. Um, you're checking your heart, making sure you're not calloused with the addict who you have to tell again, run away from your sin. Or you're uh frustrated with a person who's homeless because they seemingly can't hold down a job and show up on time. Um you have to guard your own heart. Uh you have to recognize that your own faith is being stretched.

SPEAKER_08 12:37

I through through my role as a deacon, I I became a listener. I I I listened as a a job title on what I do. It's uh and it it became essential to me because I I really didn't listen in initially. I I waited until it was my turn, and then I would throw in what I had to say, and I realized how corrupt and and vile that was that was, you know, because that's what that's what culture does. Culture waits. You know, others speak, we're called to listen, and and to have uh that opportunity to reflect on the Christ-likeness that has has been seen in me by others and and have received a a consecration for very specific service to his kingdom. I'm grateful. I'm grateful every single day I came out of a background of of addiction and didn't come to saving faith until I was 38 years old. And um I held on to some of the selfishness that that I had for a number of years and and until I finally uh I was finally brought to my knees uh uh one more time. Which I mean that wasn't the last time, but I I and I I realized I I I needed to to see myself the way Christ sees me. And I needed to be able to be used by Christ in the way he prepared me. And so um to reflect on on Chris's uh uh question, it's uh it's really important that we continue to have that introspection in order for us to recognize uh the potential for uh wandering into the darkness because it it's right next to the light. And uh there's a lot of darkness. Thank you. But we are the light.

Chris Cashen 14:58

Rich, can I follow up on that question? I know you're about to ask answer it. But what does the heart of a deacon look like who's who is actively seeking to pay attention to himself?

SPEAKER_10 15:09

I guess what I would say is that um, you know, what what Christ taught his disciples to before correcting someone, um, you know, the speck in their eye, look at the beam in your own eye. And I think we need if we're not paying attention to those beams in our eyes, that that needs to be our heart of self-reflection, self-analysis, not but not self don't beat yourself up, but you know, analyze yourself, look at what you're who you are, what you're loving, uh, what you're what you're caring about, um, and then and then you can go and help someone with that speck in their eye. And I think until you've you've looked at yourself and recognize where you have probably, and I've done this in many situations, I've had the same problems or been in the same sh situation as the person I'm trying to help. And if I don't recognize that it's if this was me or this could be me, um I'm not gonna be as effective as in helping them.

Chris Cashen 16:07

So, in a sense, you're constantly looking in a mirror back at yourself. Unfortunately, yes. I understand, good. Well, brothers uh We know that the qual one of the qualifications to become a deacon is that one trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. We see that clearly. In Acts chapter six, he has to be full of the Spirit, and in First Timothy three, they must hold to the mystery of the faith. That would sort of be the first qualification for becoming a deacon. So knowing that truth, uh why were the disciples soon to be actually called apostles in this passage? Uh why were they struggling here, do you think? As Jesus called them to forgive and to forgive and to forgive.

SPEAKER_09 17:01

I think when you You see this more when you're dealing with long-term cases, when you're emotionally invested in someone's well-being, and you really you can have the temptation to turn like someone who's in financial straits turn it into a math problem, or someone uh is uh having relationship issues and turn it into like a behavior modification of just do the right thing. Um and it's it might be your strength of like, oh, I have my financial house in order, why can't you put yours in? And have a sense of of pride or haughtiness or things of that nature. Um but when you recognize like you have to be washed with God's love. God loves that person be not only because they are made in the image, but God desires that the wicked be saved. God desires the soul to be saved. And I will be the last to say that my heart has been callous, because there have been times where your heart is callous towards someone. They might not see it in your countenance or your face, but internally you're like, this again. Um or you can say like in your heart, like, I told you so, or why didn't you listen? Um But you have to guard your heart of like and the and the best way to do that is looking at a mirror of yourself and recognizing who you are, uh going to your needs, because uh I like to think of like Ephesians 6. Our battle is not against flesh and blood. I think sometimes we can look at the physical and forget the spiritual dimensions of things. Of uh, yes, we're helping people build better habits. Yes, we're enabling them so that they can worship and have communion with their God. Um but we are one way of doing that is learning to forgive, learning to uh be long suffering. I think sometimes we want to be on the receiving end of someone who's long suffering, um, but to get ourselves stretched out, or as Paul says, a drink offering poured out to really like be spent on someone. That's that's harder.

Chris Cashen 19:42

Um, have you ever had an experience in your ministry uh where you've struggled with forgiveness?

SPEAKER_08 19:55

Um initially I I did. I struggled with that a lot because of uh self-righteousness, which which somehow manages to creep in. Even to this day, after a million years of being a deacon, and there's there are times when I wanna I want to exalt myself over circumstance, but I I need to remember that I'm called to embody humility and a a life of gratitude, which which I I do. Every morning I wake up and I'm so grateful to God that that that the first 38 years of my life prepared me for the next 38, uh which is how long I've been walking with Christ, and and uh it's it's just been an incredible journey. I'm grateful for every step that I've taken. But we we need to forget uh the things that dragged us away from what Christ has prepared us to be. Uh you know, I d I I want to remember them as as I see them approaching, so I I can battle against them, but um we we we encounter a lot of pain. I you know that in the last in the last episode, in the last uh breakout session, I heard that uh RC sp was R. C. Sprohl was quoted as saying, go to the pain. And you know, he he used his illustration of after nine holes of playing golf, he would stop for lunch and and that's when he would minister the gospel. Because if you ever saw anybody come in from after they played nine holes of golf, they're they're a broken, pain, pain filled individuals. He didn't he didn't agree, but uh The RC was very effective with that. I had read other other articles by him that he he mentioned that. But what what do we do? How do we step into it?

Chris Cashen 22:14

That's actually the next question. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 22:18

Well I'll let Rich start.

Chris Cashen 22:19

Okay. So Rich, I'm assuming that you you would also struggle with at times forgiveness. So when you realize when you realize your struggle, how do you seek to address it? Do you ever cry out to Christ, increase my faith?

SPEAKER_10 22:50

I was struggling with forgiving someone, not as much forgiving, but you know, I was I was holding a grudge against someone at our church we were trying to help. I I would call him chronically underemployed. He just didn't have um good work and struggled to make ends meet, and we would help financially and and I would try to break through in counsel into getting another or our our board would would attempt to bring him along and say, okay, let's let's lay out the books, see what you have, and because you have an income problem, not necessarily a spending problem. And I we just couldn't do it. He wouldn't do it. And I was he he had his head in the sand um a little bit about his finances, and I got frustrated with that. And then I realized, you know what, I do that myself a lot. Sometimes I just you just don't autopilot, you just, you know, it'll work out. Um and that was actually his his response on a lot of things was what the Lord will provide. And I I learned from that that he does provide, and I need to reflect on that on myself, and and that kind of uh convicted me to say, okay, uh he's he's got a measure of faith I don't really have, and I need to recognize that and and work with that. But having said that, it's still we didn't ever get to the point of addressing the the root cause of of his situation. But again, going back to my point about the the beam and the and the speck, I had a a beam in my own eye and was trying to yell at him about his speck. And maybe it was a little bit bigger than a speck, but it was still something.

Chris Cashen 24:28

So the Lord was working on your heart. He sure is. Even though you were thinking the Lord should have been working on his heart more. He was working on your heart. Exactly. Yeah, very good.

Compassion When You Are Worn Down

Chris Cashen 24:39

If you can, we can now kind of transition to our next subtopic, which may be a little bit more challenging, and I've entitled it Compassion Challenged. At times the deacon, or excuse me, the disciples of Jesus Christ, surprisingly, or maybe not surprisingly, seemed ready to dismiss those who really needed mercy or help. From Matthew chapter 15, we read this, and Jesus went away from there, withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, Have mercy on me, O Lord Son of David. My daughter is severely oppressed by a demon. But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, Send her away, for she's crying out after us. He answered, I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But she came and knelt before him, saying, Lord, help me. And he answered, It's not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs. And she said, Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table. And the Lord answered her, O woman, Great is your faith. Be it done for you as you desire. This is a bit like the feeding of the five thousand in a certain respect. Notice that Jesus had withdrawn, possibly to get some rest. We're not quite sure. The disciples were with him, and they likely needed rest. But as this Canaanite woman follows and cries out for mercy, Jesus doesn't answer. Apparently, the woman continues to cry out, now directing her cries to the disciples. And their collective response, the response from their hearts, is go away. And they beg Jesus, who has the power to send her away. They beg Jesus to make this incessant crying to stop. Maybe they needed rest. Maybe they thought that she was asking for the impossible. Maybe they were just irritated. Brothers, does the ministry of mercy ever wear upon you?

SPEAKER_08 27:01

Um I find that we can get trapped when our compassion is challenged. Um that story um just reminds me that I it reminds me of of my uh world class giftedness is in jumping to conclusions. And uh I I need to I need to be able to check my emotions. I need to wait um uh uh for uh however long it takes to assess. I mean, we we we read this in one sing sing simple passage of scripture, but we don't know how long that it took. I mean, it it could have taken as much time as as we want to invest in in it, as we need to invest in it. I mean, this this woman is coming out of brokenness. She's there, again, to you know, to remind us we need to be where the pain is. And and Christ, Christ, no matter how tired he was, and surrounded by everyone who was probably even more tired than he, uh, because you know, he leads and they're they're running to catch up to him all the time. Uh, and and so they're they're exhausted. They're exhausted and they just want the whining to stop. And there are times when when, you know, when uh I've had repeated calls regarding circumstances, and I'm thinking, I said, I said, I'm working on it. You know, that's how that's how I feel. Uh, but I I can't say that because I don't want it to be a voice of discouragement. Christ didn't discourage those who came to him, he didn't discourage those who followed him. We need to be the embodiment of love and not just of humility. We need to be patient and diligent in our responses. And sorry to jump ahead of you.

Chris Cashen 29:19

Alexander, are there times when you become physically tired and ministering mercy?

SPEAKER_09 29:26

So I have a four-year-old and a two-year-old. So we're in the phase of life where a full nights of sleep is not guaranteed. Um and then on top of that, uh there's work. Uh Alice and I, uh, my wife and I uh were young in our marriage, still freaking things out. Um, so usually after the kids go to bed, uh usually from like 9 to 10 or 9 to 11, depending on how it's like it's time for us to connect and uh process things, and she usually wants adult conversation. Um so Sunday really becomes a day of rest for us. Uh usually we can tempt the kids to nap, which means we can get a nap. It's a time for recharging. But Sunday afternoons also can be a time where someone, uh, a stranger comes in or a visitor comes in and uh there's kind of like a last-minute flurry of like they want to talk to a deacon, and so you're staying later. Um you're not I'm not gonna get a nap that day. Um and so there are times where Jesus isn't even in his own ministry, he's tired, he's exhausted. Um, he's a human, he's a man of man. Um and I'm I'm encouraged that there's a rest in multiple areas. Um sometimes you can recognize that you're resting when you hear the sermon. You can recognize that you are you've been reminded of the gospel maybe minutes or an hour before, and now despite whatever the minister had for application, now's the time to do sermon application. Um when you're tired, when you might not have had a full night of rest. Um go back to an earlier point about faith tested. That's when your faith really gets tested. That's when the rubber meets the road. Um sometimes we like to think of like faith being tested, but I sort of feel like a term is like faith is being revealed. Um, not only when you're tired, but you're also revealing like what you really believe the gospel is in action when you're meeting with that person. Um so yes, you can be tired, you can be worn out um taking care of uh multiple people at once and juggling them and making sure uh all of your sheep are are good for that week uh before you check in on them on at least face-to-face, either on Wednesday or Sunday. Uh again.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

Um it's hard work, but it's good work.

SPEAKER_10 32:30

I would say that I I don't I don't recall specifically feeling overly worried wearied by diaconal work, but uh what I will say is I I am afraid that it's gonna happen. And every time that phone rings or there's something that I know needs to happen as a deacon, I get anxious about this is gonna take a lot. And I'm I don't know that I have the energy to get this done. I don't know that I have the either the energy or the even the will or the desire, honestly, sometimes. Like I just can't somebody else deal with it, you know, one of those things. But what I'll say about that is every time I do that and then will step out in faith or eve or with even in a lack of faith, I step out and do the thing that I need to do. I'm always amazed by how God blesses that to me. And I don't get weary and I get blessed by it, and I can it becomes a uh rewarding experience for myself and and and then I, you know, repent and say, I won't do that again. And but then I do. Um and the other thing I was gonna say is uh I've I've done a few uh or I did a short-term mission, uh not short-term mission, disaster response. It's the same thing, right? Sorry, David. Um, up in uh Michigan uh after the floods there in Midland. And I I all honesty, I ride a desk all the time. I'm not a not a uh I'm handy, but I don't do a lot of manual labor. And I remember not getting tired when I was doing that work. I can work around my house on a Saturday and I'm rushing to get projects done, and I'm Saturday night, I'm I'm spent, but I spent a week there and I I felt really good afterwards. So, you know, God gives us the strength, I think, to do the work that He wants us to do.

Chris Cashen 34:19

Amen. Praise God. Thank you. Well, did you notice that this Canaanite woman seemingly does not stop crying out? And did you notice how Jesus speaks to her of her faith? By remaining silent, Jesus seems to have been probing the hearts of the disciples, testing their hearts, and in fact, pitting the faith of this Canaanite woman against their faith in this challenging situation. The question for these disciples, I think, was who are they depending upon as they received the cries of this woman? Themselves or Jesus? Len, what happens in your heart when you're presented with a challenging request for mercy? Do you become fearful? Is your heart inclined to run away?

SPEAKER_08 35:15

No, I I I'm I'm never inclined to run away. Praise the Lord. I uh I know that that God has has brought this individual or this couple or or this group of people before me because he knows that I've been uniquely gifted to deal with it and and to and to uh search uh my heart and to search scriptures for uh uh at least a verbal solution. Um I've become uh the last the last uh breakout session I was in reminded us that we need to be good delegators. And no matter how old we are, uh um fortunately I'm real old, so I got to be a real good delegator. I can't do the stuff that I could uh you know 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. But I can still I can still meet with people, I can still pray with people, I can still feel as if I'm useful. I'm I'm part of a uh uh food insecurity ministry in in my community and and we feed uh uh 36,000 people a year. And you know, it's it's striking. I get to sit with these people and pray with them and to to try to walk walk them through uh circumstances uh uh according to scripture. I I it's always my point is to is to speak of Christ in their lives so they understand that they're not abandoned. They're I and I I don't blame circumstances, I don't blame anything. I just ask them to look to Christ for the solutions that will guide them and lead them according to his great purpose. Praise the Lord.

Chris Cashen 37:21

Alexander, let me ask you, uh a little bit of a younger deacon. Um do you ever become fearful? A challenging situation, something that seems impossible for you or the diaconate to address? Does that ever strike at your heart in that way?

SPEAKER_09 37:39

Um I think as a younger deacon, you can you kind of go through phases of at the beginning, you're like, I don't know what to do. I just got out of uh just got inst ordained or installed. Um as you're like, I don't know what we do. Um then you can kind of the next phase for me was like, oh, I went to a Diakonus Summit, I think I know something. And uh then you go back to uh the training grounds uh of the church and you recognize like wait, that it wasn't quite textbook. Um and so then you kind of uh you can kind of become I went the cynical route after that. Um and so then it's like okay, so what what do we these problems like sin seems to like permeate everything? Um and you start looking at people's situations and you have a front seat of like it's destroyed. Like, what are you really gonna do? Um and kind of the climbing out for me is like reprioritizing. Like, I've heard like okay, the gospel and the love of Jesus solves problems, but it sounds like a platitude or like empty words. Um, like, how do you make that real? How do you take something that's very abstract and make it concrete? Something that really touches someone who's hurting. Um and sometimes this is the temptation is like, I have to do it. When in reality, you're not doing anything. You just happen to be the instrument. Um God is working through providence. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills. Um He seemingly convinced seemingly conveniently gives you the cow when you need the cow. He gives you the daily bread when it's time to eat. Um there have been times where people have large medical bills and we're like, we we're we're a small church, we don't have that kind of money. Um you try to be wise stewards and be like, okay, can we go to the hospital? Can we negotiate like, is there a cash discount and things of that nature? And um you get the number down, and then a couple weeks later, you like have a uh you didn't communicate to anybody that you needed the money, but the money comes, and then you're like, oh, problem solved. Our budget is our uh deacon's fund is low, but the problem is solved. Um and there have been a number of cases where the money comes just in time. Um so you can be afraid of like, I don't know how I'm gonna take care of this elephant. It's one step at a time of faith.

Chris Cashen 40:50

Very encouraging. Uh Rich, you mentioned uh that uh as you do minister mercy, even in a challenging situation, maybe especially in a challenging situation, that there's something that happens to your heart. Can you just briefly describe that?

SPEAKER_10 41:10

I could try. I think what happens, uh what I what I realize come to a realization is, and uh these other guys have said it too, that you're relying on yourself to do something. And that's sort of my barometer for um why I'm either weary or frustrated or angry at the situation is because I gotta do something and it's gonna be hard for me to do it. And um that's that sort of indicates to me that I'm not I'm trying to do it on my own power and not resting on on Christ and his power to accomplish that and just him using me to do what he needs me to do. So I think that's that's where my I can see my heart not in the right space, and then I can repent of it and and turn to Christ and then uh like I said, step out in faith and and do the thing I'm supposed to be doing.

Chris Cashen 42:05

So in short, the challenging becomes possible in Christ.

SPEAKER_10 42:10

Yes.

Chris Cashen 42:11

All right, good.

Discouragement After Mercy Is Rejected

Chris Cashen 42:12

Moving on to subtopic number three, discouragement to present. From time to time, as deacons minister mercy, I'm sure you all have had this experience, as you pour yourselves out into those who have needs, who need help, sometimes discouragement and disappointments arise. Sometimes those who receive your ministry are ungrateful for it. Sometimes those whom you help only appear to be interested in the physical, the physical being met and quickly. And sometimes those to whom you minister in the name of Christ actually turn on you, becoming discontent or even angry, claiming that you failed to treat them well, and speaking poorly of you to others. In Mark chapter 14, we read this. And immediately while he was speaking, Judas came, one of the twelve, and with him a crowd with swords and clubs, from the chief priests and scribes and elders. Now the betrayer had given them a sign, saying, The one whom I will kiss is the man, seize him, and lead him away under guard. And when he came, he went up to him at once and said, Rabbi and he kissed him. And he laid hands on him and seized him. But one of those who stood by drew his sword and struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear, and Jesus said to them, Have you come out against me as a robber with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day I was with you in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me, but the sc let the scriptures be fulfilled. And they all left him. And fled. Jesus suffered great discouragements, or let me put it more accurately, he suffered many things which would bring discouragement to most or all of us. Betrayals, the disbelief, the distrust, the abandonments that Jesus has suffered from those who were closest to him are difficult for us to even read about. However, for Jesus, he knew these events. He knew this betrayal was coming, these abandonments were coming. I'm not sure that made him made them any easier on his heart. The deacons unexpectedly suffer events and interactions which may lead to discouragement or to a downcast spirit. Brothers, why does the Lord bring these kinds of potential discouragements or disappointments to deacons?

SPEAKER_08 45:05

There was a encounter with uh a couple in in our church that um kept pushing back on on uh our interactions, and they they just didn't want to uh listen to what what we were saying. We were recommending different ways for them to solve their circumstances. Uh yeah, we had come alongside them financially for uh quite a bit, and that there wasn't enough. They wanted more. And and we said, well, you know, if you followed these recommendations that that you make, that we make, um we believe that you will transcend circumstance. Well, they were offended by I I was primarily the spokesman. They were offended by what I had to say, and um they went to uh the pastor, and I have to admit I was uh a little discouraged by that. Uh so I the the pastor uh uh called me and you know we talked about it, and he said, Would you be willing to uh uh apologize and and ask for forgiveness? I said, if they believe I have offended them, then I I most certainly will. And the uh the husband would not meet with me, but the wife would, and she did forgive me, said that said that she did. Uh, and which uh which for which I was very grateful. I I was I was you know really grateful, and it was and I remembered that thankful hearts recognize that every blessing is an unmerited gift from God. Every single and so I I looked at this opportunity I had to ask for forgiveness as a blessing. Even even if the the interaction ultimately uh was unsatisfactory to them, I knew that that uh that God had had worked in this circumstance uh all on both sides. It wasn't just to satisfy uh my uh understanding of of the situation or our understanding of the situation, but it was to glorify God. Ultimately, uh, you know, I I wake up every day and I said, please, God, allow me to glorify you and enjoy you forever. You know, Bob Keys mentioned that uh uh last night, and and it's a a catchphrase that, or more than the catchphrase, it's uh the scriptural mandate that we have as as uh Presbyterians. And you know, what is the chief end of us, and we we could all say it in unison, but we can say it silently. And and it's it's a glorious way to live when when we're not carrying around the baggage of condemnation.

Chris Cashen 48:29

Agreed. Yeah. So, brothers, uh following on that question, and assuming that you have also been exposed to possibly discouraging situations, how do you guard your heart against it?

SPEAKER_09 48:49

I think there's a category in the psalms. There's even a book dedicated to laments. Um there's psalms for people who that we can use when we pray to cry out to God. Um as men, maybe historically we've had the stereotype of we don't have emotions, we don't we we can uh be analytical. Um but I think the honesty, if we're being truly honest, God did not make us that way. Um, we may not have the emotional vocabulary, perhaps, of our wives, but God made us emotional. We have that. So you can, especially when you're emotionally invested in something and you have disappointment, you have discouragement, um, you just feel weighed down. Um I'm I don't know if this is common, but like there are times where I'm just awake at night and you're just praying uh for maybe two hours or maybe till the sun comes up, just petitioning God for someone because you just you you don't have anything left. Um you've you've given them the suggestion, uh, you've maybe given them the financial uh gift to the extent that you feel is prudent, um, but giving more would be imprudent. And so you're like like the only one who can change a heart is God. Um so I think you you have to be honest. Uh you have and the best way for me to be honest is uh like dealing with emotion, is is obviously talking with my fellow deacons, um, but really it's in your prayer closet of I think it's kind of a lost, like it's good to lament, it's good to cry out. Um I think it's good for us, especially when you're dealing with long cases of like continual prayer. I think sometimes I'm guilty of turning God into Santa Claus of let me say a quick five-minute prayer with you, and we'll be on our way, and then I can lock up the church building and I can go have lunch. Um, but to really have prayer and like you you have a vested interest. Sometimes we can care for people and kind of do it at arm's length. But when you're emotionally invested in something, there are going to be times where you're disappointed. There's gonna be there's gonna be highs and lows. Um and that's not bad. You're you're human, you're learning, and on those, you're learning, you're learning more of Christ's character, you're learning more of God's character. You're learning to you can then sympathize with those who have been brought low because you have been brought low. Maybe the circumstances is different, but you've experienced it.

SPEAKER_10 52:14

I'll add to that. I think um so prayer obviously be one way you guard yourself, and then spending time in the word is going to be key. Uh, hopefully we're all doing that on a regular basis and we're getting deep into the word. And I was thinking of a couple passages as uh Blenn was talking about, you know, um somebody kind of almost persecuting you for what you had said. And um, you know, what does Jesus say about us being persecuted for righteousness' sake? We're blessed. Blessed are those who are persecuted. So, you know, that's you're persecuted, but there's a blessing that goes along with it. So it's it's not just don't just focus on the persecution part of it. And then in James, I I think about this verse all the time count it all joy when you face trials of various kinds. Because back to Bob's point yesterday, we do this, we should be doing this for joy. And though one of the hardest things to get through is that I'm gonna be not just abiding and dealing with this trial that I'm going through, but I'm gonna be joyful in it. It's not easy, and that it only comes, it's one of the fruits of the spirit, right? We don't generate that. The spirit generates that in us. And to remember that and you know, let trust God that he will do it, and because he has in my life at least, uh, many times. Not to say I don't get sad and down, and but he has brought me back from that. So praise the Lord.

Encouragement Through Prayer And Rest

Chris Cashen 53:39

Brothers, I can't leave us on discouragement, so I need to go to our last subtopic, and that's encouragement supplied. This is the other side of that coin of discouragement. And so the question is when and how is the heart of a deacon encouraged? Where do you go to encourage your heart such that you can keep pressing on in this ministry of mercy? And you've already touched upon it. This is from Mark chapter 1. That evening at sundown they brought to him, meaning Jesus, all who are sick or oppressed by demons. And the whole city was gathered together at the door, and he healed many who were sick with various diseases and cast out many demons, and he would not permit the demons to speak because they knew him. And rising very early in the morning while it was still dark, he departed and went out to a desolate place where he prayed. And Simon and those who were with him searched for him, and he found him and said to him, Everyone is looking for you. Jesus was clearly encouraged and built up and sustained as he prayed, as he communed with his father. We see it in that passage. He rose early, indeed, very early, not for breakfast, not for physical nutrition, but for spiritual encouragement. He had just spent the prior day battling physical sickness and demon possession, battling sin and Satan. And even after a night of rest, he needed communion. He needed spiritual refreshment and encouragement from his father. Brothers, we know that Christians are called to pray. You've already touched upon that a little bit. We're familiar with that passage from 1 Thessalonians, rejoice always, pray without ceasing. When do you find it most necessary to stop what you're doing? Stop your ministry of mercy, in a sense, and like Jesus, go into your prayer closet.

SPEAKER_08 55:57

There is uh always an end to the phone ringing. Except this isn't this is mid. But there are there are times when we're feeling the weight. We can't we can't turn away from who we are. But we can call on the Lord for refreshment, for renewal, for encouragement, for love. We know that gratitude in every situation will overwhelm discouragement or betrayal or our own sinful reactions. Jesus has has called us uh to be prepared in in all circumstances. You know, on on Wednesday I got a call from a church member whose grandson I had uh worked with a number of years ago. Um he was he his mother had been incarcerated, he was living with his aunt, and his aunt uh needed some help, and uh the the kid and I hit it off and we became uh good friend good friends until the husband uh of the uh or the father of the child was released from prison and he wanted the kid back. So I was cut out of the picture. It was heartbreaking for me, but I I wasn't discouraged because every time I would see him, we had we'd always have a very friendly exchange, but the if it was if he was with the father, it would it would be brief. The he's fifteen now, and he was just arrested in Williamsport, Pennsylvania, for a series of gang shootings. And he was going through gang initiations, but his grandmother called me because of the relationship that that we had formed years ago, and and she asked, Will you see him? I I said, Of course. I'll I'll be I'll I'll do whatever I can. He said, Well, you can't see him yet, you can't see him until next week. I said, Well, it works out good because I'd be kind of pressed for time right now. And so I'm I'm going to try to see the young man. And and if it weren't for uh interactions with him years ago, I would never have this opportunity. I I'm part of a nursing home ministry as well. And uh, you know, I've been doing that for uh 18 years in Williamsport. I one day, one Sunday a month, the fourth Sunday of every month, which is this Sunday. So I need to get home. Uh I I proclaim the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ to aging people. I mean, even older than me. And and it's it's a real joy. But yesterday while while Bob was speaking, I I got a call from the activities director that that one of my favorite uh residents died. She had just died, and she said, I knew you would want to know right away. And uh, you know, I I had to put my head down for a minute and I and I didn't hear you for those couple minutes, Bob. But you've been blessing me for so long. I'm uh I know I'll hear it again. But you know, it's just we we have we we develop relationships over the course of our existence. There and there's no way to turn away from it. People look at us, they either see Christ in us or they see the darkness in us. And it it's it's up to us to call on Christ. When when we need to go to our knees, we go to our knees. When we need refreshment, we we go to prayer. And he's always there. He's always there, even if we try to hide, he's there. So when I contemplate the circumstance that that exists in discouragement, I know that my heart of gratitude will always overcome it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:22

Praise God.

SPEAKER_09 1:01:24

I think when you're uh when I've been dis discouraged or downtrodden, um it's good to that like I have a wife, so she is a good and tremendous helper to me. Um kind of a bulwark of sorts. Um the other thing is like when you're discouraged and you're and you you need encouragement, like even simple things like did you eat, have you been drinking? I live in Arizona, so drinking water is pretty important. Um uh do you need rest? Do you need a nap? Um sort on the physical, but then you also have the spiritual of uh uh having morning and evening worship is is good. I think in a day and an age where uh people are abandoning the Sabbath, uh maybe even abandoning evening worship, like the the it's the Lord's day, that entire day is devoted to rest. Uh sometimes it's physical with a nap, sometimes it's spiritual, uh, and being reminded uh by the preaching of the gospel, sometimes it's being refreshed by uh a baptism or uh communion. Um sometimes when you're discouraged, like uh prayer and the and the Bible are kind of the two-way streets of prayer talking to God, God responding to you in the word. Um I think the other, especially for your if you're a lone deacon, um I sit on the presbytery, so if you're in the presbyter in California and you're a lone deacon, uh the presbytery committee is here for you. And I think I can speak for any presbytery member sitting. Like if you're a lone deacon and you're discouraged, uh there are names uh that you can call. Uh I know David Nokala does a uh periodic check-in if you're interested of just calling other deacons. Um but we carry unique loads. So if you are able to talk with a fellow deacon on your board, um, or if because of situation or circumstances, you want to talk to someone who's in the same office uh and and want to just emotionally process with another deacon, um, I think you can call anyone in this room, and we will gladly pray with you, encourage you. Um, I think very often encouragement is reminding you things of that you already know, but re-impressing upon your heart their importance. Um you have like the physical, you have the spiritual with the Lord's Day, and then you have the relationship of bringing you out of that discouragement.

Chris Cashen 1:04:36

Rich, last question for you, brother. Uh how has the Lord Jesus changed your heart through prayer?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:49

How much time do we have?

SPEAKER_10 1:04:52

Um I would say, you know, every every time um you think you think after all these decades of being a believer and being a deacon, then uh I I wouldn't need it anymore, right? My heart's where it needs to be, but it's not. And um, you know, I struggle against um the the old man is still there and still wants to to bring me back down. Um so uh I think as I've as I've aged and matured, you know, just getting a little more uh outward focused, realizing when I'm thinking about me all the time and or too much and not thinking about others. Um I mentioned before spending time in the word, I go through seasons of I'm really diligent about my daily devotions, and I go through seasons of, eh, I didn't get to it today, and I'll maybe tomorrow, and then that turns into a week. And um, so you know, I I praise God that He brings me back and gets me back on those tracks. Um, and I can I can see it in my life when when I'm not um not spending time in word in the word and in prayer um so it it's it's palpable it's it's it's an I can feel it when I'm I know when I'm not where I should be, which is yeah. Yeah a lot.

Chris Cashen 1:06:16

Praise the Lord that He has opened the door. He's torn the veil in two. Brothers, what uh what is Jesus doing in your heart, in your ministry of mercy? I'm hoping that the the questions that have been asked and answered have been helpful, encouraging.

Audience Q And A For Deacons

Chris Cashen 1:06:33

And now you'll have an opportunity to ask the panel questions for about the next 20 minutes or so. So do you want to come up? Me okay. So come on up to the mic if you'd like to ask a question. Tell us your name and church you're from and then go with your question.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:00

Running for the door I don't know yes sir.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:05

Uh Benjamin Schultz PCA um in the middle sorry I don't remember your name you mentioned something about periodic calls from the Presbytery to deacons. Can you elaborate on that? What is that and how does that work?

SPEAKER_09 1:07:19

Yeah so the Presbytery of Ohio is probably better than the Presbytery of Southern California in this respect. So uh but to my understanding the Presbytery of Ohio they have uh Zoom meetings uh just because of distance and so that gives an opportunity like when you can't meet face to face like this the next best thing is virtual meetings. Um so I think Presbytery of Ohio has it twice a year. Um Presbytery of Southern California we're kind of on ramping right now. So President of Southern California despite its name includes Hawaii Southern California and Arizona. So it's just by sheer geography uh it's hard to get everyone in in one place. And so Zoom meetings have been a good opportunity to do and it's different every time. And so you have like quick introductions and usually uh we can usually have like a I think the way the Ohio does it like they have a topic or presentation and then they have like meet and greet type thing. So uh Southern California we've done meet and greet um we hope to do more of like topical and have interactions uh on that sense um we have in this uh Presbyterian Southern California we have a roster and so we uh will periodically reach out uh to deacons and their boards and things of that nature we tend to target uh churches that either don't have deacons just as checking with sessions like hey uh if you want help uh because we're very respectful of the lines of Presbyterianism of like if you want help or if you want input, we're here as a resource. Uh for those who are lone deacons um sometimes when you're a deacon by yourself, you kind of carry the weight of that ministry by yourself. And so being available as a resource um to them, it's almost like getting your jackinet board augmented by a multiplication.

SPEAKER_07 1:09:28

You get uh can sometimes get stuck in your head um maybe second guessing yourself of like is this really the way to go having a fresh pair of eyes um uh maybe more men with more experience perhaps even if you're a newer deacon newly installed um can help you walk through the process of good questions to ask um other checks and balances um so yeah hey so uh I'm my name's Jacob I'm from the OPC um I had a question um talk about self-examination this entire panel um it kind of relates to uh self-doubt I suppose you could call it maybe um I guess what I what I kind of mean by that is like um well give an example I'm a single dude um and I've noticed in dating sometimes you can have two people that on paper they seem like they should be compatible but in real life when they try to get together you know it just doesn't work. And I'm wondering if that's possible in the diaconate as well in the sense of uh on paper you maybe look like you maybe fill out all the qualifications in you know first uh first Timothy 2 Timothy uh to be a deacon but when you actually try to um you know engage with the position and actually do the work it maybe isn't what you are called to do. I guess I'm wondering A is that possible and if it's not how do you deal with doubting that maybe this isn't your calling even are you a deacon or are you a deacon in training I am the uh a a lone deacon so a solo deacon at my church.

SPEAKER_09 1:11:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:26

So I I want to as a lone deacon I want to encourage you um obviously to the extent that you can get to know the people in your presbytery uh if you can sit at the table with them uh so they can get to know you um the other is you will have periods of self-doubt um but are you having self-doubt because of uh inadequacies that you're feeling or what is the thing that you're self-doubting about if I can ask oh um not inadequate well maybe I mean like uh a lot of times it has to do with like um um it can be feelings based sometimes you know I'm not I'm not I'm not saying that's a concrete thing necessarily um uh especially for people who suffer with like depression and stuff it can be hard to put your finger on what the problem is but um like to give an example uh the uh a personal example like uh at this conference here I've been wondering if I'm at the wrong conference because nothing's really been resonating with me. Um and that just might be me. I don't know.

Chris Cashen 1:12:44

But so maybe Len or or Rich could just address briefly how to encourage a young man uh who is a deacon and maybe having some questions about his qualifications.

SPEAKER_10 1:13:04

Yeah if I can jump in. Um I think if if any I believe any one of us would say we often feel unqualified. And I think if if you're if you're sitting there I'm I got it all together, we we don't want you um but having said that I you know there's uh and I I talked about periods of of uh in my life where I'm I'm closer to to God than I am at other times. And you know I've gotta I've got to um I've got to pray and and be faithful and and trust God that he's gonna he's not gonna let me go. I'm in his hand he never he doesn't let us go from that. So um and the other thing I was going to say is um as you as you struggle and I sorry Bob I look at Bob and I go man I'm never going to be a deacon like Bob is I'm never gonna have that level of articulation about what I do um enthusiasm about what I do uh but it doesn't it doesn't mean I can't be an effective deacon even if I'm not Bob Keys. Um I'm sorry to put you on the spot like that uh so don't don't let that discourage you there's a lot of guys around here are doing great things and you and you you you got to be careful measuring yourself against other men it's a it's a it's a fool's errand you're you're never gonna you're never gonna match up so you know just be be prayerful pray um spend time in the word see what what draws you in if you you know and I think we've talked about it before we're all if you're a Christian you're a deacon you're serving other people that's our goal love your neighbor as yourself we're all doing that we all should do that if that if that doesn't resonate with you then we need to talk but if you can if you can say that and I can't you care about other people and you meet those qualifications in in Timothy um I think I think you're on your way.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:08

So if that thank you did you want to add anything Len? I I did want to say something to um try to encourage you even even further it it's not always been easy for me. I I grew up being I grew up being impatient a part of an instant gratification generation. And but I believe that we see that our calling is confirmed through a present trust in Christ and a genuine and sincere love for others. Are you experiencing those those qualifications if if you love others the way Christ loves you we we want every bit of you as a deacon.

SPEAKER_10 1:16:04

Yeah thanks for your transparency on that too I know it's hard.

Chris Cashen 1:16:09

Paul writes to Timothy this is the saying is trustworthy. If anyone aspires to the office of overseer he desires a noble task I would say that also applies to the office of the deacon.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:23

And so there's that internal call uh that is placed upon a man's heart to that ministry uh which is in a sense like undeniable it's undeniable other questions Derek Jarstur from Reformation OPC in Charlotte or Castonia North Carolina so at our church um both the deacons and elders meet for every session meeting all together um and there's there's a lot of blurring of the line the lines of uh the distinction between the two offices to some degree especially as it goes towards shepherding which I was confirmed very much by your talk last night uh that that seem that that was good but it seems like that's maybe not very normal across the OPC we have a ton of uh very open communication not to a degree that's inappropriate for shepherding issues but there's a lot of communication between both the elders and deacons can you talk a little bit more about what the ideal is for that and if that's not true in y'all's churches how can you work towards making those oh that overlap better? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_09 1:17:49

Yeah so uh Providence in Scottsdale uh we're a young church we're only about three years old so we meet together I recognize as a church gets older and bigger there can sometimes be deacon meetings and session meets um for us because we're young it's much easier to have a culture change so like for us we're all a whole bunch of deacons who love getting up early so we uh have the tendency of uh meeting at seven uh something from like seven to eight and then the deacon the session will meet from eight thirty until whenever so we're we have our deacons meeting if we have something to bring we can bring it to them um at my previous church uh uh communication wasn't as good and so the session had an elder sit in our meeting uh to sort of help facilitate the communication going back and forth.

SPEAKER_10 1:18:54

I think now uh they have a deacon sit at the session meeting um to sort of help facilitate that communication um I'll let them comment about uh how they've seen other churches do it yeah I'll just talk to the the two churches I've been involved in we we haven't ever we've done a few joint meetings where we're all meet together typically we meet separately um often there's been uh right now we have a liaison between the session and the um and the deacons he's an elder who used to be a deacon so he's kind of makes a lot of sense sometimes a pastor will do it um he'll sit in on our meetings so you know there's really nothing uh we don't get we don't hide stuff from each other um it I I but I will say this it's very valuable to to be in good contact with with your elders because they are dealing with spiritual issues you may not know about and they may not realize that you're we're working with some uh physical needs that have often have a spiritual component too and um it's just good for them to be aware of of all those situations. Um I would I would warn against if I can um and I know a recent situation of uh um where uh the the deacons were working on not my church but deacons were working on something they sort of got to the point where it's this is a spiritual problem so they gave it to the elders the elders gave some counsel and there wasn't any feedback back to the deacons and they made some suggestions that encouraged them to do some things that the deacons weren't aware of and got a little bit of it got a little uh ungainly as that it it didn't wasn't working out well there was a lot of a lack of clarity in the situation. So keep in close contact with your with your session.

David Nakhla 1:20:44

Yeah and the two churches that I've served most recently we only had one deacon and so it made sense to have the deacon come to the session meeting where we had a consistory meeting to begin with uh and then we'd excuse the deacon uh and so he could stay for the rest of the session meeting he wasn't required to uh but he could um but that was how how we handled it so question this will be the last one I think not a question it's more a word of encouragement and exhortation to the young deacon speaking as one who self-doubts a lot and looking at my fellow deacons and saying I can't do what you do I've sat down with my pastor he's told me stop it stop listening to yourself seek the

Final Encouragement And Resources]

David Nakhla 1:21:40

counsel of your session seek the counsel of your pastor seek the counsel of the Holy Spirit stop doubting yourself you are insufficient for the task you always will be if you're a deacon for the next fifty years you will be insufficient use the resources these men just mentioned to you be encouraged if you are trying to be faithful if you are serving those under your care as best you can you are doing well go to your knees in prayer as often as you need to confess when you fail but know that Christ lifts you up amenks so much for joining us special word of thanks to our producer Trish Dugan who works faithfully behind the scenes to bring this podcast to you be sure to visit our website thereformdeacon.org where you'll find all our episodes program notes and other helpful resources and we hope you'll join us again soon for another episode of the Reform Deacon Podcast