David Nakhla 0:00

Brothers, it's February already. As such, the plans for our National Diaconal Summit are in full throttle. We're looking forward to many engaging topics such as ministry to and with people with disabilities, disaster response for the local church, money matters in the church, refugee relief, and ministry to the stranger, just to name a few. Deacons, prepare to leave that lawnmower in the shed for that first weekend in June and join us for an unforgettable time of learning, fellowship, and encouragement. June 2 through 4. Nothing can replace spending several days with like-minded brothers from across the continent who are also engaged in similar diaconal labor. Consider bringing your whole diaconate and make it an uplifting getaway. If you've already attended one of the previous summits, you too will want to attend. We have so much new material to share. If you'd like to know more before registering, check out the frequently asked questions on our website. Or if you are ready to register now, go to our website, opccdm.org.

SPEAKER_02 1:03

You know, elderly people I I found don't always live close to their children and their grandchildren. They don't have many friends left. I remember this lady in the hospital. She had one child. She lived in California and she was in Pennsylvania. I walked into the room. She grabbed my hand. She had not been close. She didn't come to my chapel services or Bible studies or anything. But she grabbed my hand and said, Thank you so much for coming. I'm so lonely. And so I was able to minister to her.

David Nakhla 1:33

Welcome to the Reformed Deacon, a casual conversation with topics specifically designed to help local Reformed Deacons. There are nearly a thousand deacons in the OPC alone. So let's take this opportunity to learn from and encourage one another. We're so glad you could join us. Let's jump into our next episode of the Reformed Deacon. My name is David Knockla. I'm coming to you today from the OPC offices in Willow Grove, Pennsylvania. I'm joined by a co-host today, Deacon Scott Pierce of Church of the Covenant OPC in Hackettstown, New Jersey. Scott, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Thanks, David. Glad to be with you. Awesome. First time, long time, as they say.

David Nakhla 2:16

Good, good. Won't be the last time. And uh our topic for this episode is caring for the elderly and shut-ins. It was Scott who proposed that we take up this important topic, yet I think that most would agree that ministry to the elderly and shut-ins is relevant to most congregations. As such, we've invited two seasoned pastors who have a bit of experience ministering to the elderly and shut-ins to join us, and we're thankful they are with us today. Our first guest is Reverend Richard Shaw. Following many years of pastoral ministry, Reverend Shaw served as chaplain at several retirement communities in the greater Philadelphia area for 12 years. Rick, thank you for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Thank you. I appreciate being here.

David Nakhla 3:02

And our next guest is the Reverend Don Buchanan. Besides producing a beautiful daughter, who I'm pleased to call my wife of 26 years, uh Reverend Buchanan served his last decade prior to retirement as the pastor of Calvary OPC in La Marada, California, the church in which I grew up. That congregation has developed quite a ministry to the folks living in the rehabilitation center that was just on the other side of the church's parking lot. Once Don retired, he didn't wait long to jump back into active ministry by carrying out a weekly ministry to the Senior Living Center located right next door to another OP church, Westminster OPC in Westminster, California. He does this ministry on behalf of Westminster OPC, and the congregation there is very involved. Don, welcome to the program. Scott, can you briefly describe to us what began your search for more insight on the topic of elderly in shut-ins? Uh was it a result of particular conversation with an elderly member, or is this subject something you and your deacons want to improve upon in your service to the church, or maybe it's something else?

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Uh generally, the question comes from the feeling that I think a lot of pastors and elders and deacons can relate to the lingering or maybe even the nagging feeling. Are we doing enough? Are we being faithful to meet these needs and fulfill our duty to our brothers and sisters? Like I'm sure many diaconates and sessions do, we we keep a list uh of members at the top of our meeting agendas. The list has all the church members who fit this criteria of elderly or shut in or widowed. Um, so at a minimum, once a month, we're reviewing this list uh at our meetings, sharing updates if we have them. The the one and only summit I've gone to, Reverend Trice preached from James in in the keynote address and really put this emphasis on visitation. I don't remember if that was three or four or five years ago, but that's something that has stayed with me from that summit and I've taken from there. And that's that's really what another place this question was born out of. But there are there are months where the the list seems very long and maybe a busy time at work. The question I think is really just trying to tap into that that wisdom of Drethrow and acknowledge that, you know, like all the elements of our ministry, the deacon doesn't necessarily need to be the one doing all the visitations, but perhaps he could be more effective involving the congregation, you know, bringing in other hands and distributing that load. So really looking for that, how how to involve a congregation in uh in this ministry.

David Nakhla 5:26

Yeah, that's so great. Oftentimes our shut ins can be out of sight, out of mind, and it's the deacons who are paying attention to them and uh concerned for them. So yeah, thank you for bringing this to our minds. There's probably nobody that would say, I don't want to visit. Every everybody has in a sense a heart for uh those who are shut in, but but it can be difficult and strange, and especially if you're not a people person or a conversationalist normally, maybe you don't know the people that well. Uh Rick, can you talk to us about what to do on a visit and how to maybe overcome that feeling of awkwardness?

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Let me uh preface what my answer by saying I was a unique child. I grew up knowing a set of grandparents and having three grandmothers and two grandfathers, and being the oldest son, grandson on one side and the oldest grandchild on the other side. I spent a lot of time with the older set of relatives. I there was a comfortableness for me as a pastor to meet with those who were seniors in my church, and all and I've always felt very comfortable. Easy to talk to them because uh I think both my my maternal and paternal grandmother and my step-grandmother as well all taught me how to converse with them very well. Yes, as far as uh getting used to it, what to say, people like to talk about themselves is the social criterion I've heard over the years. And as a chaplain at Springhouse Estates in Lower Gwynedd, well, I had to visit people when they first moved into the community. And so you knock on the door within a week of their moving in, and what do you talk about? You talk about them. So you ask questions that are fairly easy for them to answer, uh, talk about uh where they're from and uh what they've done in their lives, um, a little history of their work career and so forth, and certainly talk about their children and grandchildren. So that's the beginning and all. Then you just go from there.

David Nakhla 7:43

If you're able to ask a question, you're qualified to visit.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I think so. Rick, can you can you discuss these biblical commands to visit the sick, the widow? You know, certainly the deacons will be familiar with you know, passages one, uh James 1 and Matthew 25. We're specifically called to to visit, uh, to be present, uh, maybe discuss, you know, what why this physical act of visiting is is so clearly directed.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Right. Uh James says that uh true religion is to visit uh the fatherless and the widow and all. So I think uh we we have to see that the biblical command is there. And in fact, we find it in other scriptures to uh honor the elderly or the gray head, I think uh some of the Hebrew says. I found as a pastor, it was part of my almost my natural ministry to be visiting people in their 70s and 80s and 90s, people in the nursing home or people in their own homes. And then when I became a chaplain, obviously visiting people in skilled care who we had 96 beds in our community and they were almost always filled. So there were plenty of opportunities to visit people who were either on hospice, uh, who had dementia, who had been in the hospital and returned from surgery, or people that just because of their age were now unable to care for themselves and had to have help uh for their daily activities or daily uh requirement. Jesus seemed a minister to all ages. And so uh, I mean, he healed Peter's mother-in-law. So I don't know how old Peter's mother-in-law was, but she evidently wasn't a young woman. So I think we can say that Jesus cared for seniors, cared for older people. And of course, he says in Matthew 25, I was sick and you visited me. And although it doesn't mention elderly there or seniors there, I think the uh we can infer at least that some of those people would be people of age. Yep. So I uh yes, I think that the bib the Bible is full of commands for us to care about those who uh have cared for us, honor our parents, and remember that they cared for us when we were younger, we care for them when we're older.

David Nakhla 10:02

Don, would you like to add anything to that?

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Following up on what Rick said about how many relatives he had growing as a as a younger person, I had six uh great-grandparents living till I was about 10 years old, which uh I guess gave gave me a bit of a head start in some ways. But my father was in uh childcare work, so I grew up in children's homes. Then later, when I was uh in the pastorate, uh, as David said, there was uh kind of a nursing home right uh behind the church. And then when I retired, I got into this uh ministry down in in Westminster. So I I've seen it from both ends, but I I think I felt very comfortable talking to elderly people that um have a lot of experience, and I've really enjoyed you know, picking their brains and and then having some experiences uh that we have in common, though at different times. And uh I think this has made me uh very open to ministry to elderly people and and to see uh the joy that that comes when they have people to talk to and and to be involved with. And of course, uh wanting to follow the scriptures, obey the Lord's commands, to be in amongst these people and give them comfort and encouragement. That's maybe the greatest impetus of all. But just uh the way my life has been, I have found that being among the older people is fun and uh is often a great experience. And I just feel like the Lord has drawn me into that, and not to say that others are not that way, and in fact, to say that I think the Lord cares about the elderly, and I'm one of them now, I guess. But uh that he does draw people to them and he draws Christians to them who are listening to the scriptures, who have a concern to obey the Lord, and then to have have what you really like to do and enjoy doing, the Lord draws you into that situation and uh that that combination of our obeying the scriptures and the Lord drawing us to have that that sort of fellowship and and interest in other people, especially older people, is I think that the way the Lord works. It's it's the way that He He has His church reach the elderly by this drawing mechanism, if you will, uh, based on our understanding of the scriptures, but also what's in our hearts and what pleases us.

David Nakhla 12:13

I was even thinking along the lines of what Pastor Rick was saying about honoring the elderly and those who've cared for us in the spirit of the golden rule, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. It behooves us all to be keep in mind that unless you know we should die at a young age, we will all be elderly. We will, and there's a good chance we will all be shut-ins at some point. If we would like to have people visiting us, shouldn't we be uh doing the same to others? Yeah, it can be great blessing.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

I had that same thinking when I was the chaplain at the retirement community. I would tell people all the time, I'm not that far behind you. They might be in their 80s or 90s when I was in my 60s. And I said, I'm just slowly catching up with you. You know, it's amazing how older people, the experiences that they've had alone, getting to know men who had fought in the Battle of the Bulge or over on Okinawa or in the Pacific. We have one Japanese man who won a number of medals fighting in World War II, who's a fine Christian man telling his stories was wonderful. So there's a selfish element, at least for me, in visiting some of these people because I had two grandfathers who are great storytellers. So I got grew, I grew up with grandfathers telling stories. And so I had enjoyed visits with many of the seniors over the years and also in my churches as well as in my chaplaincy, where they would tell me things that really were beneficial and uh help me uh understand the things that they experienced and learned. And so it's amazing what people can tell you educational to you.

David Nakhla 13:54

I just recently in recent years had the opportunity to be introduced to a 106-year-old lady. Uh, she just died at three, four, five months ago, but she was one of the few people in the world who lived through two pandemics. She was three years old during the Spanish flu and actually survived that as a three-year-old. And so, yeah, you think about what we can learn from those who've who've gone before. These have obviously been difficult years in particular for those who have been shut in. As we even think about the COVID pandemic hitting those uh retirement homes were some of the first, remember those early days, it was retirement homes that really got hit hard by the COVID pandemic. And we'd be remiss in not talking about COVID as we think about this subject and how it's changed our ability to physically visit friends and family, especially those who would be vulnerable to the virus. Don, can you give us some insights as to how COVID has has impacted your ministry to the elderly in shut-ins and maybe what you've learned through that and how we've grown through that?

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Well, I think the main thing that's happened, at least regarding the place I've worked at most recently, has been the fact that they've closed the doors and said, no, you can't come in anymore. And uh really it was a kind of a heartbreaking thing to be cut off from these people. Um and even now, just recently, we've been told have to be uh triple vaccinated and and have to have uh masks and have to have a test before we can go in and minister. So it's become uh harder once again. So that's one of the things that we've had to learn to live with uh in the last couple of years is uh this interruption of our ministry. I think, you know, if you've been uh speaking to them uh in Bible studies or in services on a series or something like that, and you have in mind I I want to uh move from here to there and in my study with them, and then you get cut off and you kind of have to go back and pick up the pieces again uh when the doors reopen. And and we thank God that they did reopen once, and we trust that they'll there or there will be more freedom eventually. But I think that that's one of the hardest things is how the COVID has kind of cut things off. Now, in in Brookdale, where where I've been working, um there haven't been too many cases. There have been some. This latest uh Omicron virus, I think, is spread more widely, although it's not talked about very much. But the fact is it hasn't been a lot of sickness that I've seen there. So mostly it's it's a matter of the people just becoming isolated, and uh you can kind of feel their isolation. Uh I have been able to talk with some of them by telephone, which is good, and and to get their encouragement, but uh they seem also to be preoccupied with their uh situation, some some fear of of catching the disease. And uh in in some cases, they've even been isolated for weeks at a time. You know, stay in your room, we'll bring you your dinner, don't go uh into any social gatherings or anything, even within the confines of the nursing home. And it's hard uh to know that they're they're going through these experiences, and yet you have very little way to reach them to have an input to some of their needs, uh, and certainly, as I've said, to to try to build on what you've been teaching and preaching about. So that uh COVID in that sense has has been a big burden that we have to bear. And I think that takes us a lot to prayer and to say, Lord, uh, we can't reach these people personally, but you know the ones that we've been working with, you know their interest in the scriptures, you know the concerns that they have. Please help them, please uh keep their minds uh sharp and and help them not to yield to to fear and and discouragement. And that really that's a good thing because prayer makes us rely more on the Lord, but it also uh makes us feel like you know there's more we could do, but now we can't do it, and it's frustrating in that regard. So I think that's the main thing that COVID has done in our ongoing ministry with these folks.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

John, staying with you um and maybe pulling back just to be helpful to the deacon, maybe looking to make a visit for the first time, or or somebody who has not had a lot of experience with this, think thinking back on your years of service, your years of making visits to people in their homes or in the hospital, a nursing home. Can can you share a story of a time when you were reluctant or you were hesitant or or the thought of a visit was intimidating to you and and and the Lord blessed you, blessed the visit, you went ahead with it, and the Lord blessed you despite your effort or despite your maybe the attitude even you were bringing into the visit?

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Well, I can call upon uh my experience with my mother-in-law, who lived to be 104, almost two days short of 104. You know, mother-in-laws and some of the trepidation you have of visiting and so forth. And may I say I always had a very wonderful relationship with her, but uh it was a blessing to go in and see her, even uh even as her body and to a certain extent her mind was failing. And yet her love for the Lord, her desire to keep reading the scriptures, and she would ask me some very interesting theological questions that I had no uh idea I was gonna have to answer. So I I think that was uh very impactful for me to see that even at that advanced age that we were able to carry on very effective conversation, and and certainly encouraged me to think, you know, you don't have to sort of give up when you get older, but uh you can keep learning, growing in the Lord. I realize some people, you know, do have uh dementia and things like that, and and it's not possible, but with with some folks, it very much is. And that was my experience with her. Uh, another occasion I went to visit a woman that I I knew was dying. I wasn't too anxious to go. She wasn't very responsive. And indeed, she she did die uh very shortly after I started visiting her. And uh one of the things that impacted me most was she had this uh this very scary, I guess you'd call it, look on her face. I just had to stare at that face. And that uh I I'm not saying she wasn't a Christian, but she just had this look on her face of something really uh horrific happening. Um I know I've heard people say, oh, the so-and-so died and they had the most pleasant uh smile and look so peaceful, but this woman didn't, and uh that has just burned in my memory. It's probably been 50 years. Uh just that look on her face, boy, that impacted me greatly. And it just told me, I guess, that uh that death, while it can be all that we uh think sometimes as Christians uh to be, you know, uh just a passing from one place to another, that there is a difficult part about it that we shouldn't think of death as just something that uh we can slough off or think is not all that big a deal. For for some it is, and maybe that was just the Lord's way of saying, you know, take this very seriously, that these people that you're dealing with are dying, and that it's the the end of this life and and something that they're scared about or something that they're uh having difficulty with. And and you better take that seriously when you deal with people, when you're talking with them and so forth, that that death is real and death is coming, and uh try as best you can as the Lord gives you grace to prepare them for that.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Yeah, it's not a it's not a verse we have our Sunday school kids memorize, but Ecclesiastes says better is the house of mourning than than the house of laughter, house, you know, the house of gladness. There is there's a soberness to that that we we we can only gain there or you know at a at a funeral, things like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah. It was um very rare, but when I did visit people who were dying, I did have the opportunity to always read scripture to them. And I remember one case a man who had been an elder at a liberal church was dying, and the Lord just put it on my heart to say to him, You know, God's giving you a gift. You can prepare to die, because he had maybe days or weeks. And his wife was present there when I visited in the room. This was in the skilled care section of our community, and we prayed together. And uh a few days later, the wife came to my office and she said, I really thank you that you talked to my husband about that gift that you said he's been given. She said, He's he's definitely been following through on that. And I want you to know that he's trusting in the Lord. So I there are little uh Don can probably. Comment on this too. You don't find too many seniors or elderly trusting in the Lord when they've not been trusting in the Lord to see a conversion at 80 or 90 years old is rare. But I've had two or three of them that I can recall in my mind. There may be more, but not a whole lot. And uh but the Lord can use you even in the dying days of a person if you'll make that visit. And like Don said, it's not always easy to want to go, but you need to pray that the Lord will give you a love for that person that you'll go and minister to them.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah, going back to Ecclesiastes again. Remember now that creator in the days of thy youth, uh, because it is kind of unusual, surprising, and a joy when people do turn to the Lord in in their late years. You really almost have to do it when you're younger. Uh just that's the way the Lord seems to work things out over the years.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

So we need to understand that, as Don says, that we we want to see a life devoted to the Lord, not just days devoted to the Lord. Yeah, it's it's amazing when I the couple of uh conversions that I've seen. Uh I know another man who I visited in the hospital. This was when I was a pastor in Bordersville. His sister and her husband went to a sister church. And the sister said, Will you visit my brother in the hospital? And I was one day away from vacation, coming back to Pennsylvania. So I thought, oh, I'll I'll just make a quick visit. Well, he wasn't happy to see me. And I told him his sister had encouraged me to see him, and he said, you know, he just didn't really care about a visit. So I said, Well, may I pray with you? And I have a little gift. I gave him a today booklet from the CRC. I said, I'm leaving on vacation. I'll be praying for you. Well, he had heart problems and he was still in the hospital two weeks later when I came back from vacation. I went to see him. There was a night and day difference between how he responded to my initial visit and then my visit two weeks later. He said, I read that book you gave me from cover to cover, and I want you to know I'm trusting in Christ and all. And he became a wonderful Christian, and uh, I didn't have the privilege of working with him because um the church in Caney, Kansas was closer to where he lived. And so one of the elders and the pastor at Caney, Kansas got to welcome him into their church and and work with him. But the Lord really did a work there, and I could have just said, well, he's not my my sheep. He's just an older gentleman, he probably hardened in his ways, but you never know how the Lord is going to work. And uh, you have to trust that the Lord is the one who opens the heart.

David Nakhla 24:55

I know that a lot of diaconal ministry, a mercy ministry, can be very time-intensive and require a lot out of you. But one of the things that I've noted in the opportunities I've had to visit elderly, and I even think about Don references mother-in-law, which is my wife's granny. When we would go down there and visit, it oftentimes it visits are short. It really is actually not a big requirement of time. Um, many visits, 15 minutes, 20 minutes is about all elderly folks can handle, but it is very impactful to them. And so you get a big bang for your buck, so to speak, with regards to time spent. So just wanted to plug that in as I thought about it, that it really is not a big time effort, but it is actually just adding that to our schedule.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

You know, elderly people I I found don't always live close to their children and their grandchildren, they don't have many friends left. They've passed away. I remember visiting a lady in the hospital, she had one child. He lived in California and she was in Pennsylvania. I walked into the room, she grabbed my hand. She had not been close, she didn't come to my chapel services or Bible studies or anything, but she grabbed my hand and said, Thank you so much for coming. I'm so lonely. And so I was able to minister to her in that. But I found over and over that I was called the visiting chaplain at Springhouse Estates because people appreciated that I would visit them in the hospital, especially, but even in their apartments or in their rooms. I don't know. I always made time every day to visit and it paid dividends for me as a pastor.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

So uh Rick and Don, you're both you're both seasoned professionals. You've been doing this for a number of years. Maybe, maybe put yourself in the shoes of a of a new deacon, perhaps, or or even an experienced deacon who's looking to do you know visitation for the first time, or what are some best practices of visitation ministry? And I'll I'll leave the question intentionally broad and then you know I have some follow-up questions if necessary. But uh Rick, I think we'll start with you.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Initial visits, especially, I would talk, ask questions about them, about their career, hobbies, talents, what they've done in their lives. If your wife is very willing, I would take your wife with you. I think that's a very important thing, especially when you're visiting widows or women of the older age. I found that my wife is very good with me to go visits. In fact, she works for the company that I work for as a chaplain. So she too has always felt that elderly have been those who she wants to minister to. I always took a devotional book like the Today Book, or uh, there was um uh another book that we offered uh through the place where I worked. I would always take a card, get well card with me, especially if I didn't know the person well that that helped me to uh minister to them better. And then we had a great ministry there where we would take stuffed teddy bears to people. Uh the church might want to think about that. Uh, if you're a deacon and you have a good number of people in your church, uh I found I bought I was able to buy them by the gross. And then I would take them. It's amazing how people appreciated that little stuffed animal. I remember one time, even when I was visiting in hot with hospice when I passed her in Oklahoma, I didn't have a teddy bear, but I took a little raccoon, stuffed raccoon, just happened to have the name Ricky on it, on the t-shirt. And the lady I was ministering to loved that teddy bear, and she, for the next few weeks before she died, she she identified me and that raccoon uh together. And all I had the great privilege of having her funeral and ministering to her family.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Don, what about you? What are some other some other best practices?

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Well, I would reiterate what uh Rick said about getting to know people, uh, even apart from elderly people, if you read any of these books about how to make friends and so forth, it's to find out about them and let them express themselves as to who they are and some of their history and so forth. And then if you can identify in your own life with some of the things that they've had in their lives, it certainly uh bridges the gap very quickly, enables you to get to know them and talk freely. Another thing is that um you can't waste too much time because you never know when when people are going to leave us. Uh sometimes they just leave the facility and you never see them again. And sometimes you just come in and say, I'm here to visit so and so, and they will say, Oh, she died. And wait a minute, you didn't have any idea that they were gonna die. So uh the sooner that you can uh make those the contacts and the sooner you can talk about the Lord, uh the better. And and sometimes that initial visit may be the first uh and and the last time that you'll see that person, or at least uh you won't have many more visits. So I I would certainly uh think that that would be very important.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

Uh we had a chaplain who had a little dog that he took to the to the office, took to the community every day. And that was a wonderful way of him being able to open up uh with people he didn't know, also uh as a pastor or as a deacon or a visiting, not be afraid to take uh one of my children with me. It's amazing how many people through the years don't get to see their grandchildren or other children.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

We have a couple of friends who uh have hospital ministry, and uh every year they get to churches to make blankets, and uh they'll take those blankets to the patients.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

One of the biggest advantages that the Lord has given me starting as a deacon is actually my my role as a pastor's son. And uh speaking of bringing children to visits, my my dad very often would bring uh me, my brother, my sister, you know, one at a time, two at a time, depending on the depending on the person, depending on the setting. And as a child, I didn't always know what was going on. I didn't understand all the mechanisms of of the visit. But even now, you know, approaching 40 and in now in church ministry myself, I I can picture what visitation of the elderly looks like because I my dad brought me along. You know, he would give us tips and hints on how to make conversation and oh, tell Mrs. So-and-so about your school project, whether intentionally or not. He would he was training me for for future church ministry later on, even so it's it has it's it's certainly one of these things. There's many applications to Christ saying it is better to give than to receive. You don't know what the Lord has in store as you're as you're going to do all these different things. Um, maybe that maybe to ask the same question, but in the negative, what are maybe some things to avoid, uh, some things to not do on a visit?

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Yeah, I'd I'd say don't act rushed. When you when you act rushed, I've got to get on to somebody else. It kind of leaves the person thinking, well, I'm not very important.

SPEAKER_02 31:41

A one rule is don't sit on the bed. Just sitting on the bed makes them move and causes pain quite often. You're gonna have to speak up because they don't hear very well. So so be prepared to don't talk in low voices or soft voices.

David Nakhla 31:57

While you don't want to be rushed, you also don't want to overburden them with your presence too long. At least that's been my experience is that there is a limit to what some folks can handle and try to read those cues. My my uh my wife's granny, she was she was not shy about telling us it's time for you to go. And she would say it in those words, it's time for you to go. And usually that's about 20 or 30 minutes after we arrived. So speaking of ministry to those in the hospital, can you speak to that, Rick, a little bit? You mentioned your visits to Abington Hospital for those in our churches. It may not be necessarily be an elderly person. Do you have any advice uh for deacons uh ministering to folks in the hospital?

SPEAKER_02 32:41

Well, I I would hope that the pastor or one of the deacons that you keep a list of those people who are in the hospital. If you've got a fairly large congregation, you could have eight or ten people in the hospital, you know, at any given time. There should always be a team ministry with regard to visitation. There'll be women in the church who are good at it. There'll be men in the church who are good at it, or it'll be a team of a couple. I would uh certainly make it a point to keep hospital visits. Being a deacon in the church or or elders in the church can be such a uh boost to the ministry.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Don, can you help us think through or or walk through what might be a very difficult visit? Things like maybe the person is in is in pain and and extreme discomfort, or or even it's not it's not a guarantee that English is someone's first language, and there might there might be, besides hearing loss, you know, there might be other barriers to communication.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

I think the um language problem is uh difficult, but I think for the most part, people that I deal with anyway can understand English. They don't really have that big a problem getting across the language barrier. But uh in in other respects, uh when they're in pain, I think you do have to kind of have a short visit. Not that that your presence there makes the pain worse, but it's it's it's hard for you to communicate, it's hard for them to communicate. On the other hand, uh some people just like to have a friend who's near. I remember we had one lady uh who was in pain, and and uh even comatose some of the time, we just went and sat in the room, and sometimes I would just take the Bible and and read scripture, uh not knowing whether that person was uh cognizant of what was being said or not. But I think just presence sometimes is uh a very great help. And and so I would I would say that uh even even if there is pain, uh make a short visit, but realize that that that's going to be difficult in in terms of trying to maintain the situation. But uh, if it's possible just to be there and maybe not even say anything, but just be there, uh, even if if you are not uh you know trying to communicate that they appreciate that and they'll tell you later that they appreciate that.

David Nakhla 34:59

So as members of a local congregation, we we oftentimes talk about that as Christians, everybody is actually a deacon, little d uh servant of Christ, and and the Lord can use the officers in the church to mobilize the congregation. Do you guys have any thoughts on uh you know how our deacons and and elders and pastors for that matter might uh encourage lead, not only by example, but encouraging the congregation to be involved in outreach to shut-ins and to the elderly?

SPEAKER_01 35:37

I would say that uh if you do have services for people as we do in the nursing home, that uh having people from the congregation just to come and be a part of the service, it kind of you know increases the the numbers there, which which makes for a nice environment. But also uh the people once they're there and they see the people and greet them and then maybe have a few minutes to speak with them, then they get very interested in participating more and uh we want to come back again. And and that's one way then to bring them into the situation there.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

But I remember years ago when I was in Bridgewater, uh, we had a monthly nursing home ministry in the afternoons at the local nursing home, and our whole congregation wasn't more than 20 or 30 people, that that was our evening worship service, but that was a great way to minister to people. And I think that uh the pastor should preach from first uh James 127 and that text or Matthew 25 to to uh really encourage his congregation to be a this is another way of outreach for the congregation to uh keep their elderly in mind. I recommend Wrinkled but not ruined by Dr. J. Adams as a book that the elders and the deacons of the church could read and or give to others in the church to see a ministry to those who were seniors.

David Nakhla 37:09

Thank you for that uh suggestion. And then we'll include that a link to that in the program notes. Um, if I could just testify as someone who grew up in an OP congregation that did have uh monthly services in the what we call the convalescent home behind our church, just across the parking lot. I remember as a little kid, my dad was one of the deacons, and it was a ministry of the deacons. And I remember as a little kid, we would we would go and we would ask people, would you like to go to the we're gonna have a church service? Would you like to go and I'll push you there? And some would say no, but some would say, Oh, sure. If they didn't give us an answer, we took that as a sure. And uh we would push them. It gave us a familiarity with and a comfortableness being in those facilities, kind of sometimes the smells and the sights are things that need a little bit of getting used to. But um the the warmth that you sense from the folks, they're they're very isolated, they don't see families, they don't see kids, and it was a blessing to them, our presence there, but also very instructive to me as a young man and formative, certainly for me. Our church currently does not have a ministry to a convalescent home and I or a facility such as that. And I think my kids, it's something that they that stunts their growth, I think. And something even this conversation stimulates me to think about how to rectify that.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Getting a ministry like this off the ground, uh, if if if a church was perhaps starting from scratch, um, I'm glad you mentioned just maybe joining an existing worship service at a at a nursing home. That's a great suggestion. What pushback might might somebody get from a nursing home uh if it if a congregation was looking to visit a nursing home?

SPEAKER_01 38:50

Well, some nursing homes think if you let one group in, you have to let all the groups in. And uh so they say, well, we're just not gonna let anybody in. So you have to kind of convince them that that your ministry there is needed and uh that you feel you have something to add, something useful, and and present that in a way that they can they can see that yeah, you you can do something.

David Nakhla 39:10

And wouldn't you say that a lot of uh nursing homes are looking to fill a calendar of activities? So they're actually looking for such that they, you know, you might find some that are the opposite end of that. They would very much welcome you know, something to put on the calendar.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Not just nursing homes, but I regularly taught a Bible study when I was in Bartlesville weekly because of the organist in my church who went to the nutrition project and where they served a meal and had activities for the seniors and so forth. And so she suggested her pastor uh for a Thursday Bible study at lunchtime or just before lunch. And so for a number of years, I taught through the Book of Ruth and other books of the Bible, got to eat lunch with people, got to know them. We actually ended up having a blind man come to church through that ministry. The deacons or the elders of the church and the pastor should be aware what nursing home uh may not have a ministry like that, or what a senior center may be looking for a Bible study, or maybe even a time of worship. I think that would be a wonderful opportunity for a church.

David Nakhla 40:22

Brothers, this has been so helpful and we're coming to a close here. Maybe as a wrap-up, Rick, what what would you say are maybe the top three things you've learned over the years that might give insight to local deacons as they begin or improve the ministry to elders and shut-ins?

SPEAKER_02 40:40

First of all, we should not assume that elderly people and all are receiving ministry of some sort from their family or from other people in the church. Uh, deacons should make visits along with the pastor. I mean, right now, so many people are not going to church. Uh, we have five elderly people in our congregation. Only one person comes to church on Sunday right now. The others, because of COVID, um, because uh they don't drive anymore or they're on a walker and to get up and down steps are hard. So I regularly try to call on our uh four or five people and see that they're ministered to. I can guarantee that those people are lonely and the church does a very great disservice to them if they don't visit them and be an encouragement to them to show them that they're loved and that they're a part of the congregation. If they're 95, they're a part of that congregation. And just like a four or five-year-old child's part of the congregation. So they need to know that. And we need to uh understand they probably will appreciate the visit no matter how long it is.

David Nakhla 41:51

So don't assume that they're being visited, know that they will appreciate it and make it a priority. Those those are good words. Thank you. And Don, last question for you. Uh, could you share with us maybe three specific things that the elderly shutdown community wishes deacons? If we could flip it around, what what is your sense that the community wishes deacons and congregations knew that might aid them in their lives?

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Well, I would say they wish that you knew that they were more interested than you think. They are really searching for it for answers themselves, and uh they're interested in what you have to say. They want you to know that they are more interesting than you think. They have lives that have had many experiences that that they would like to share with somebody. I think they would like you to understand that they're just waiting for that opportunity. Uh, I would say also that people are hurting in ways that you can't see. Uh, some of them have been abandoned by their families. Then maybe they would like you to know that uh the Lord's been working with them. They're not yet believers, but they have heard something of the scriptures, they've heard something on radio or television, or even from some friend there. And because they are they are prepared in that way by the Lord, they would like you to be able to address that too. So those are just some thoughts.

David Nakhla 43:07

Those are good words, very helpful. Love that last one that they are they're a work in progress, and who knows, maybe you're you're the next one to come along and water the seed according to the Lord's providence. Well, Rick, Dawn, thanks so much for joining us. Uh, may the Lord bless you in your ministry to those that you serve and continue to serve. Thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 43:31

Oh welcome.

David Nakhla 43:32

So, Scott, thank you for the great topic suggestion. Thank you for taking the time to co-host and uh may the Lord continue to bless your labors as a deacon at Church of the Covenant. Please pass on my warm greetings to your dad.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Thanks for your work putting it together and getting us all here.

David Nakhla 43:49

Thanks for joining us. Go to our website, thereformdeacon.org. There you will find all our episodes, program notes, and other helpful resources. And please make plans to join us again next month for another episode of the Reform Deacon Podcast.